Helpful ReplyHot!ISIS Talk & Speculation

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Geordie007
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 09:06:44 (permalink)
_binar_
Just get them round a table, find out what they want, and thrash out a solution. 




Well according to the extremists they want death to all of us who dont want to live under shariah law or somesuch.  There doesnt seem to be a solution.
#31
SW14
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 09:18:53 (permalink)
_binar_
Just get them round a table, find out what they want, and thrash out a solution. Worked for IRA/Sinn Fein.
 
Nah, bomb the fuck out of the place until WW3 destroys us all instead.


Oh yeah, cup of Jasmine tea and that. A global caliphate run under Shariah law you say?

Coming right up!
#32
Kenny Rogers
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 09:22:54 (permalink)
I think it's only right we all convert and live in a worldwide caliphate. I mean, worth a try init?

#33
Nearly 50 FFS
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 09:24:12 (permalink)
Just to expand on my point above.
 
Much like your average superhero movie, the 'military-industrial complex' needs a 'bad guy'.
 
Vietnam, Russia, Iraq, Iran and so on... then in a dramatic plot twist, the bad guy became 'borderless' with 9-11, except the perpetrators came from Saudi, but who's going to put our biggest arms buyers in that frame? Better a bearded guy who lives in a cave that we can just kill, taking the head off that particular snake, leading us onto the next one.
 
Better now, there is a 'borderless' enemy that we can't have 'summit talks' with, proper 'diplomatic channels' aren't open to us, besides, they're savages and we don't negotiate with terrorists. However, we sure as hell have a big reason to arm ourselves and all middle eastern countries that will have our weapons. 
 
A peace deal, territory for Isis and Palestine - no-one in the region to buy our weapons any more? No need to spend £100 billion+ on Trident? Can't let that happen.
 
Keep stoking the differences in the whole 'bible/koran' thing, dressed up somehow as 'good v evil' and the customers will keep coming, creating jobs for Americans and profits for Lockheed Martin, Boeing, BAE and so on. 
 
Oh look, now that we've fucked off Russia by bombing Syria, relations with them are at 'an all time low' (forgetting Cuba in '62 of course).. Keep an eye on Lockheed-Martin's share price as a result.
 
Conclusion - the only end game is 'The End' game.
 
Edit - replacing 'bombers' with 'perpetrators', bad choice of word.
post edited by _binar_ - 2017/04/13 09:32:57
#34
SW14
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 09:25:02 (permalink)
geordie007
_binar_
Just get them round a table, find out what they want, and thrash out a solution. 




Well according to the extremists they want death to all of us who dont want to live under shariah law or somesuch.  There doesnt seem to be a solution.


They want "people of the book" to live in second class servitude as "dhimmis" paying a "jizah" tax to Muslim rulers and polytheists to convert to Islam or be killed.

Crimes like "making mischief in dar al Islam (Muslim lands)" are punishable by death under Shariah.

It is completely totalitarian, deigned by God.

It's not really the kind of thing you can talk out I wouldn't have thought.
post edited by SW14 - 2017/04/13 09:26:48
#35
Kenny Rogers
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 09:28:23 (permalink)
Sign me up

#36
Smoked Eggs
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 10:10:39 (permalink)
SW14
geordie007
_binar_
Just get them round a table, find out what they want, and thrash out a solution. 




Well according to the extremists they want death to all of us who dont want to live under shariah law or somesuch.  There doesnt seem to be a solution.


They want "people of the book" to live in second class servitude as "dhimmis" paying a "jizah" tax to Muslim rulers and polytheists to convert to Islam or be killed.

Crimes like "making mischief in dar al Islam (Muslim lands)" are punishable by death under Shariah.

It is completely totalitarian, deigned by God.

It's not really the kind of thing you can talk out I wouldn't have thought.



Except that's not what the conflict in Syria is really about.

At it's most simple level, the two biggest opposing factions in the war in Syria and the USA and Russia.
 
They have the power to end the conflict.  That is why 'getting around a table' is important.

It's not about trying to negotiate with maniacs like ISIS. 
#37
Geordie007
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 10:15:02 (permalink)
SmokedEggs
 

It's not about trying to negotiate with maniacs like ISIS. 




Binar thinks we can.
 
 
We all know the Syria thing is about the bloody oil pipelines which is why itll never end
#38
Nearly 50 FFS
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 10:26:58 (permalink)
^^  Replace 'can' with 'should' - I don't think it's likely - precisely while we describe the ISIS 'leadership' as 'maniacs'. 
 
Who the fuck exactly would you invite to talks anyway - are they are a rudderless ship? I doubt it somehow.
#39
darkmatter
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 10:34:12 (permalink)
geordie007
SmokedEggs
 

It's not about trying to negotiate with maniacs like ISIS. 




Binar thinks we can.
 


Binar probably thinks they'd be easier to talk to when they're not carrying big guns that we've armed them with.

#40
Geordie007
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 10:48:01 (permalink)
darkmatter
geordie007
SmokedEggs
 

It's not about trying to negotiate with maniacs like ISIS. 




Binar thinks we can.
 


Binar probably thinks they'd be easier to talk to when they're not carrying big guns that we've armed them with.



But the reality is is that they will never stop carrying those big guns we supplied them with.No matter how much of a hippy you are this needs to be understood
 
 
 

#41
Smoked Eggs
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 11:00:48 (permalink)
geordie007
darkmatter
geordie007
SmokedEggs


It's not about trying to negotiate with maniacs like ISIS. 




Binar thinks we can.



Binar probably thinks they'd be easier to talk to when they're not carrying big guns that we've armed them with.



But the reality is is that they will never stop carrying those big guns we supplied them with.No matter how much of a hippy you are this needs to be understood
 
 
 



 
Meanwhile our governments are no doubt continuing to arm their ideo/theological 'mates'  like Al Nusra
#42
Mulla
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 11:08:23 (permalink)
dimdum
Since I saw that ball bearing bomb go off in slow motion in that film Swordfish, I've always been scared of them. No escape whatsoever. I did see Halle Berry's tits in that film so I guess it's evened out




#43
Geordie007
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 11:17:11 (permalink)
SmokedEggs
geordie007
darkmatter
geordie007
SmokedEggs


It's not about trying to negotiate with maniacs like ISIS. 




Binar thinks we can.



Binar probably thinks they'd be easier to talk to when they're not carrying big guns that we've armed them with.



But the reality is is that they will never stop carrying those big guns we supplied them with.No matter how much of a hippy you are this needs to be understood
 
 
 



 
Meanwhile our governments are no doubt continuing to arm their ideo/theological 'mates'  like Al Nusra




 
I dont doubt they are but again thats got fuck all to thinking we can sit down with Isis of a nice cup of chai tea has it?
#44
Kenny Rogers
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 11:34:13 (permalink)
Please, type more types of tea...

#45
SW14
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 11:35:36 (permalink)
SmokedEggs
SW14
geordie007
_binar_
Just get them round a table, find out what they want, and thrash out a solution. 




Well according to the extremists they want death to all of us who dont want to live under shariah law or somesuch.  There doesnt seem to be a solution.


They want "people of the book" to live in second class servitude as "dhimmis" paying a "jizah" tax to Muslim rulers and polytheists to convert to Islam or be killed.

Crimes like "making mischief in dar al Islam (Muslim lands)" are punishable by death under Shariah.

It is completely totalitarian, deigned by God.

It's not really the kind of thing you can talk out I wouldn't have thought.



Except that's not what the conflict in Syria is really about.

At it's most simple level, the two biggest opposing factions in the war in Syria and the USA and Russia.
 
They have the power to end the conflict.  That is why 'getting around a table' is important.

It's not about trying to negotiate with maniacs like ISIS. 


It is largely a sectarian conflict between Assad who is a mainly secular Alawite (Shiah minority sect) supported by Russia and Iran and armed Sunni insurgents supported by Turkey and the Gulf states who want theocratic, Sunni rule. Assad is fighting Islamists.

We should not be backing any Sunni rebels with arms or anything else, it's insanity. They aren't moderate. What kind of moderate hangs around such a grizzly civil war for 5 years? It's only the crazies left.
post edited by SW14 - 2017/04/13 11:38:28
#46
Slippery Mick
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 11:42:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby DrumBongo 2017/04/13 11:45:38
There's only hysteria about ISIS because they won't play ball really. The West loves a dictator who does. It's why Iran gets a disproportionately worse rep than Saudi Arabia considering how each behave.
 
If they have a democracy, that goes against the best interests of the larger Western states. If you can get a dictator to play ball and provide you with goods and services, in favourable conditions (i.e. low prices, access to other natural resources, intel, etc) then you are, technically, providing a benefit to the home nation.
When the dictator no longer provides you with the conditions you would like, you can arm rebel militia to overthrow that dictatorship, and put in another. As you've helped that group rise to power, they will likely give you favourable conditions. This is a pattern. It has happened throughout the Central Americas, and the Middle East. USA, France and The UK are no strangers to this kind of scenario.
 
When it goes wrong you end up with ISIS. Are we the baddies?
#47
Mr Sketch
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 11:42:35 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby DrumBongo 2017/04/13 11:45:37
Just nuke the whole of the middle east now and get it over and done with IMO


http://www.house-mixes.com/artists/Mr_Sketch
#48
w1003
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 11:47:31 (permalink)
Mr Sketch
Just nuke the whole of the middle east now and get it over and done with IMO


Murica!

sigs have returned
 
BRB
#49
darkmatter
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 14:00:35 (permalink)
geordie007
 
But the reality is is that they will never stop carrying those big guns we supplied them with.No matter how much of a hippy you are this needs to be understood
 




Guns break, ammunition runs out, wars get lost without financial/medical support and food/water.
 
I'm not expecting this to turn into a lovely chai sipping moment but as people are saying above, continuing to arm and support them is madness.
 
What kind of moderate hangs around such a grizzly civil war for 5 years? It's only the crazies left.

 
The impression I get is that it's quite a split. There are the absolute crazies but also quite a lot of less committed people who are just 'on the payroll' and trying to carve out an existence for themselves. That's why their grip in places like Idlib has weakened massively, sounds like they've been unable to maintain the level of oppression there was previously.

#50
Whagwan
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 14:22:55 (permalink)
Wasn't that long ago that people were saying there was no point negotiating with the IRA as they are ideologically married to a fully united Ireland.
#51
SW14
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 14:23:51 (permalink)
I nominate you to go and lead negotiations.
#52
Slippery Mick
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 14:25:30 (permalink)
Whagwan
Wasn't that long ago that people were saying there was no point negotiating with the IRA as they are ideologically married to a fully united Ireland.




Yes and then they always seem to divorce the peaceful negotiations from the violence when the actual fact is without the violence and aggression the people with the power to change it wouldn't even have them in the fucking room. Same story with MLK and the Civil Rights movement in the US.
#53
wiseacre
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 14:28:09 (permalink)
coalition forces were in talks/cooperation with al Qaeda in Afghanistan for some time before the US pullout. hth.

no
#54
SW14
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 14:31:07 (permalink)
The IRA weren't filming snuff movies chopping off people's heads, setting fire to people in cages, cutting the throats of priests and drowning a car full of people on a swimming pool.

These are next savages. It's a lovely trait to try and see the best in people but this lot are bereft of humanity.
#55
darkmatter
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 14:37:03 (permalink)


#56
SW14
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 14:40:25 (permalink)
Any peace treaty with ISIS would be worthless. The Prophet Mohammed made a 10 year peace treaty with the Meccans when he was in Medina which he violated after 2 years, successfully invading them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Hudaybiyyah
#57
MellowHype
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 14:44:38 (permalink)
You must believe in Jesus too
#58
darkmatter
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 14:45:57 (permalink)
RT I know but quite interesting:
 

 
SW14
Any peace treaty with ISIS would be worthless. The Prophet Mohammed made a 10 year peace treaty with the Meccans when he was in Medina which he violated after 2 years, successfully invading them. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Hudaybiyyah

 
If anyone else drew a parallel this remote you would immediately discount their point by highlighting how different the two scenarios are.
 
e.g.
 
SW14
The IRA weren't filming snuff movies chopping off people's heads, setting fire to people in cages, cutting the throats of priests and drowning a car full of people on a swimming pool.

These are next savages. It's a lovely trait to try and see the best in people but this lot are bereft of humanity.


#59
OEM
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Re: ISIS Talk & Speculation 2017/04/13 14:50:08 (permalink)
He's not fanatical imo. You edited your post lel


#60
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