Helpful ReplyHot!American presidential election

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SW14
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 16:41:04 (permalink)
I’m just not that worked up by it. It may or may not have been said. It’s unstatesmanlike language for sure but I find it hard to disagree dwith the general appraisal of where those countries unfortunately currently find themselves. They are both on the verge of being failed states.
Subsurface
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 16:43:42 (permalink)
wiseacre
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 16:54:12 (permalink)
tbh this is one of the smaller gaffes made by trump this week, let alone this since he was inaugurated. 

no
Whagwan
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 16:59:27 (permalink)
Shithole is an anagram for His Hotel
wiseacre
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 17:02:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Me_Kick_Out_Teet 2018/01/12 19:02:59
https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7pv08v/a_new_low_the_world_is_furious_at_trump_for_his/dsk8sbi/
 
The most offensive part about Trump's comments today wasn't the word "shithole". It was the word "Why".
Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?”
Do people even really understand what our president is saying?
Look, I'm not angry because he calls places "shitholes". I'm a first generation immigrant. I come from a shithole. I lived 10 years in a shithole. I'll freely call it a shithole. I won't get offended if you call it a shithole! It's a shithole! Happy?
But how DARE he use my origin as an excuse to demand an additional reason to explain my presence here? Why is it up to me (but not say, a white Norwegian) to provide some extra level of justification for why I deserve the chance to be an American?
If these places really are shitholes, shouldn't there be an even greater obligation to help people who come from there, specifically because they're in the most danger?
Apparently not. Because Trump sincerely believes that some people deserve the chance to be Americans, and some people do not deserve the chance to be Americans, and your birthplace (and by extension, your race) is a key deciding factor in whether you deserve the chance to be an American.
Trump is practically saying "America is for white people. The rest are interlopers until proven otherwise. Until someone explains to me WHY they're even allowed here." Let's not forget either, that in this particular situation, he's not even talking about illegal immigrants. He doesn't get to even use that old fig-leaf. He's talking about a reconfiguration of who we even allow the chance to become legal, not based on merit, not based on national security, not based on employability, but specifically targeted against the people he happens to hate.
Let's cut the crap. Deep down, we know damn well that he's not talking about your place of origin. Who do you think Trump is more likely to feel is more deserving citizenship? One of those scary Muslims that are "taking over" Norway, or a white South African? Cuz I got a feeling that when he's looking at those people, the calculus for determining whether their home countries count as "shitholes" suddenly changes.
And yet, the media is taking the bait. Already they rush to obfuscate the issue, to absolve him of the real evil of his comment by focusing on the "inappropriate word" he used.
Already, we're having these dumb conversations like "Well, to be fair, Haiti isn't exactly a nice place to live, he's just saying what everyone thinks privately, and he just chose a colorful word to describe it...", and instead of focusing on the racism, we just go "Oh, but look at the pretty beaches of Haiti! It's not a shithole! Look at the natural beauty and rich culture of-" SHUT THE FUCK UP!
What bearing does that debate have on anything?!? As if Trump's greatest sin is not watching the Travel Channel?
What our president said today isn't just boorish, it isn't just cruel. It betrays a deep and insidious level of racism that can only be described as white supremacy. He is literally throwing a tantrum because the "wrong people" are enjoying the benefit of immigration.
And it is so depressing and so terrifying, that even Trump's opponents - the people who represent the best hope we got to survive this regime - are just gonna waltz past that and chide him for his language.
If I'm the one from the shithole, how come Americans are so stupid that they keep falling for this crap over and over?
 
 
well said

no
SW14
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 17:09:25 (permalink)
The problem is that when insidious gangland ultraviolence is as pervasive and normalized as it is in El Salvador, you inevitably import some of those problems when you try to help by offering (or by people taking illegally) a route into the host country, with some pretty horrific results.

In an ideal world we could help the millions of people that need help with no consequences, but there are consequences. He ran and won on an America First platform.
post edited by SW14 - 2018/01/12 17:40:57
MF182
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 17:42:59 (permalink)
Trump should go on a drive around America. I’d say at least 60% of this country is a complete shithole. The fucking guy is a moron.


Stoopid_Fux
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 17:48:26 (permalink)
MF182
Trump should go on a drive around America. I’d say at least 60% of this country is a complete shithole. The fucking guy is a moron.


He kind of does though. He is always slagging off Chicago for starters.
MF182
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 17:55:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Subsurface 2018/01/12 17:57:53
Stoopid_Fux
MF182
Trump should go on a drive around America. I’d say at least 60% of this country is a complete shithole. The fucking guy is a moron.


He kind of does though. He is always slagging off Chicago for starters.


Basically he hates everyone who isn’t a millionaire. It’s cunts like him that have made areas in big cities like Chicago and New York shitholes. He’s an oranged faced anus mouthed cunt who needs to be thrown off a bridge.


Me_Kick_Out_Teet
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 18:06:47 (permalink)
SW14
Domino
Stoopid_Fux
To play devils advocate for a second are ppl here trying to suggest they themselves have never called areas or places a 'shithole' before ?
 
Most Londoners and southerners alone keep telling me how Birmingham is a shithole whenever i say where im originally from




 
I think it is more "who" said it and the perception is that he has a complete lack of compassion or understanding for these places and merely dismisses them as "shitholes" 
 
Not exactly the kind of behaviour you would expect from a President or an ambassador for country relations. 
 
Hideous attitude to have towards third world countries that are trying to get back on their feet. 




You are more than happy to make homophobic comments though, which many people would consider extremely bad taste as well. 


Yes, and that's exactly why I'm not fit to be the president of the US you absolute tool.
SW14
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 18:30:37 (permalink)
More than happy to opine about “compassion” and “understanding” and accuse others of bigotry whilst casually dropping homophobic abuse though.

You won’t be President but you make a great hypocrite.
post edited by SW14 - 2018/01/12 18:31:42
Me_Kick_Out_Teet
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 19:01:57 (permalink)
I'm not sure why you are still trying to derail this and talk about what I have said on a music forum.. Like it matters. This man is a world leader.. If HE can't be compassionate and understanding then he should not be in that job...

Those are pre requisites for that position. The day I run for president.. Feel free to call me out.

And anyway.. I'm not sure what "homophobic abuse" I gave out? I gave my opinion which was pretty militant at the time. Though, I am pretty sure the last thing I have ever said on the homosexual stuff was that I was a lot more relaxed on the matter and trying to not be judgemental towards them or their lifestyle choices
PapaJaro
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 19:41:53 (permalink)
Duderonomy
Since Whiskey Bill retired, Trump has needed a stalwart defender; arise Sir SW14!


Retired?! What happened?
_Modus_
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 20:13:50 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Subsurface 2018/01/12 20:14:45
SW14
The problem is that when insidious gangland ultraviolence is as pervasive and normalized as it is in El Salvador, you inevitably import some of those problems when you try to help by offering (or by people taking illegally) a route into the host country, with some pretty horrific results.

In an ideal world we could help the millions of people that need help with no consequences, but there are consequences. He ran and won on an America First platform.


That lengthy post from reddit sums it up perfectly and you continue to miss the point of it. Trump’s comment effectively excludes everyone from those countries. He didn’t say, ‘why are we letting these gang members in from shithole countries’. If he made that differentiation it wouldn’t have sounded so bad.

It’s unsubtle, outright racism, especially once he makes that comparison with Norway. It’s one of the most indefensible things he’s said imo.
SmokedEggs
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 20:23:13 (permalink)
@SW14  before commenting further on Haiti read this book:
 
https://www.amazon.com/Damming-Flood-Haiti-Politics-Containment/dp/1844674665
 
America and France have absolutely FUCKED that country and abducted it's democratically elected leader at gunpoint flying him off to Africa.
 
America destroys countries time and time again.  For Trump and yourself to then act like it's of their own making is sickening.
 
 
Duderonomy
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 20:24:05 (permalink)
PapaJaro
Duderonomy
Since Whiskey Bill retired, Trump has needed a stalwart defender; arise Sir SW14!


Retired?! What happened?


Well he hasn’t poasted on here in ages, so he’s either preparing the mother of all Subway orders, or he’s policing Breitbart since Bannon turned snitch... or... teh BAN?
Subsurface
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 20:26:48 (permalink)
The bans. Can't remember why now.
gutlessrhyme
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 20:47:36 (permalink)
Yeah he got banned. And rightly so.
KNUCKLES
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/12 23:14:34 (permalink)
Syhr
KNUCKLES





still would.




She is fit.
 
Check the poor baby's face though lol
MellowHype
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/13 00:58:15 (permalink)
Pretty sure that's an 18 on her boat not a 13. Maybe that's her age and not her affiliated gang
SW14
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/13 07:16:13 (permalink)
SmokedEggs
@SW14  before commenting further on Haiti read this book:
 
https://www.amazon.com/Damming-Flood-Haiti-Politics-Containment/dp/1844674665
 
America and France have absolutely FUCKED that country and abducted it's democratically elected leader at gunpoint flying him off to Africa.
 
America destroys countries time and time again.  For Trump and yourself to then act like it's of their own making is sickening.
 
 


They installed him to begin with after he was deposed by a military coup in the early 90’s. I don’t think the US (or France, or Jamaica) should be meddling in Haitian affairs and yes, Duvalier and Baby Doc were propped up by the US in the Cold War era as a bullwark against communism and pilfered resources from the Haitian people.

The Dominic Republic which borders Haiti also has a colonial history and has been invaded by the US but no one would refer to it as a ”shithole”. It is a thriving holiday destination.

Is it America’s fault that Aristide didn’t deem it worthy to make rape a serious crime in his two terms, something that only happened the year after he was deposed, or prosecute one rape from the chaos of the military coup in 1991?

Read this and you will see the situation is a bit more complex than just blaming the US of A for all of the woes of Haiti.

https://www.hrw.org/legacy/about/projects/womrep/General-29.htm
KNUCKLES
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/13 07:28:47 (permalink)
MellowHype
Pretty sure that's an 18 on her boat not a 13. Maybe that's her age and not her affiliated gang



It's for barrio18, the El Salvadorian/LA gang into it with MS-13. Basically the same thing 
Shiverman
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/13 09:37:58 (permalink)
wiseacre
https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7pv08v/a_new_low_the_world_is_furious_at_trump_for_his/dsk8sbi/
 
The most offensive part about Trump's comments today wasn't the word "shithole". It was the word "Why".
Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?”
Do people even really understand what our president is saying?
Look, I'm not angry because he calls places "shitholes". I'm a first generation immigrant. I come from a shithole. I lived 10 years in a shithole. I'll freely call it a shithole. I won't get offended if you call it a shithole! It's a shithole! Happy?
But how DARE he use my origin as an excuse to demand an additional reason to explain my presence here? Why is it up to me (but not say, a white Norwegian) to provide some extra level of justification for why I deserve the chance to be an American?
If these places really are shitholes, shouldn't there be an even greater obligation to help people who come from there, specifically because they're in the most danger?
Apparently not. Because Trump sincerely believes that some people deserve the chance to be Americans, and some people do not deserve the chance to be Americans, and your birthplace (and by extension, your race) is a key deciding factor in whether you deserve the chance to be an American.
Trump is practically saying "America is for white people. The rest are interlopers until proven otherwise. Until someone explains to me WHY they're even allowed here." Let's not forget either, that in this particular situation, he's not even talking about illegal immigrants. He doesn't get to even use that old fig-leaf. He's talking about a reconfiguration of who we even allow the chance to become legal, not based on merit, not based on national security, not based on employability, but specifically targeted against the people he happens to hate.
Let's cut the crap. Deep down, we know damn well that he's not talking about your place of origin. Who do you think Trump is more likely to feel is more deserving citizenship? One of those scary Muslims that are "taking over" Norway, or a white South African? Cuz I got a feeling that when he's looking at those people, the calculus for determining whether their home countries count as "shitholes" suddenly changes.
And yet, the media is taking the bait. Already they rush to obfuscate the issue, to absolve him of the real evil of his comment by focusing on the "inappropriate word" he used.
Already, we're having these dumb conversations like "Well, to be fair, Haiti isn't exactly a nice place to live, he's just saying what everyone thinks privately, and he just chose a colorful word to describe it...", and instead of focusing on the racism, we just go "Oh, but look at the pretty beaches of Haiti! It's not a shithole! Look at the natural beauty and rich culture of-" SHUT THE FUCK UP!
What bearing does that debate have on anything?!? As if Trump's greatest sin is not watching the Travel Channel?
What our president said today isn't just boorish, it isn't just cruel. It betrays a deep and insidious level of racism that can only be described as white supremacy. He is literally throwing a tantrum because the "wrong people" are enjoying the benefit of immigration.
And it is so depressing and so terrifying, that even Trump's opponents - the people who represent the best hope we got to survive this regime - are just gonna waltz past that and chide him for his language.
If I'm the one from the shithole, how come Americans are so stupid that they keep falling for this crap over and over?
 
 
well said


Good read, thanks.

Sw14 what are your thoughts on this?
post edited by Shiverman - 2018/01/13 09:39:18
SW14
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/13 11:56:09 (permalink)
I’ve already posted my thoughts on it.

It is naive to think that you won’t import problems alongside genuine migrants from societies that have sadly become desensitized to endemic extreme violence.

US immigration policy isn’t my business but I can see why they might want to opt for a more merit based system.

The bleeding hearts are very vocal when it’s “refugees welcome” and nowhere to be seen when one of those refugees is trying to blow people up on the District Line a few months later.

There are often mortal consequences to these compassionate decisions.

This is the kind of thing you are bringing in alongside genuine migrants who will contribute to their host country.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/i-told-remember-name-shocking-11838569.amp

That’s an 18 year old girl, not some tattooed up lump. Show me a vetting procedure that screens her out.
dimdum
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/13 11:59:43 (permalink)
You didn’t really respond to the core of that text which is that the statement was inherently racist in that Trump wants a “type” of person to be allowed in. Whites. How do you build a merit system that way!?
SW14
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/13 12:10:18 (permalink)
Did he pick Norway because they were white majority or because they are highly educated, low crime and he happened to be with their Prime Minister the day before?

Bring in 10,000 Norwegians and 10,000 from El Salvador and I’ll gladly take bets that it won’t be the Norsemen with multiple murderers, violent criminals and gangbangers in their sample group a decade down the line.

There are plenty of highly educated non-white people. Merit in terms of having skills and assets that are required and not just anyone cos they happen to be from a certain place.
Cherno Samba
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/13 12:12:31 (permalink)
SW14
Did he pick Norway because they were white majority or because they are highly educated, low crime and he happened to be with their Prime Minister the day before?

Bring in 10,000 Norwegians and 10,000 from El Salvador and I’ll gladly take bets that it won’t be the Norsemen with multiple murderers, violent criminals and gangbangers in their sample group a decade down the line.

There are plenty of highly educated non-white people. Merit in terms of having skills and assets that are required and not just anyone cos they happen to be from a certain place.



Mass Norwegian immigration has historically been pretty bad for the indigenous population of the UK
SW14
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/13 12:16:18 (permalink)
Yes, they’ve rather moved on from rape, pillage and slaughter.

The same can’t be said for Haiti or El Salvador.

Bringing people in from the murder capital of the world strikes me as an excellent way to boost your own country’s murder rate.
post edited by SW14 - 2018/01/13 12:23:37
Whagwan
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/13 12:22:42 (permalink)
Like there's 10,000 Norwegians attracted by the equality and sanity of the US queuing up to get in.
Shiverman
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Re: American presidential election 2018/01/13 12:24:17 (permalink)
Incredible
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