Helpful ReplyHot!To Brexit or not to Brexit?

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Me_Kick_Out_Teet
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 14:19:58 (permalink)
SW14
Should have another referendum on the final deal offered when it isn't a whimsical, nebulous concept and is just cold, hard facts.




This. At least then, people would know what they are voting for. I will still never understand how people voted leave in the first place when there was never any kind of exit strategy offered. 
DrumBongo
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 14:30:27 (permalink)
SW14
Not true. According to the FT, most Tory MP's are now remain (176 of 314).

Really?
 
I guess a lot of them are possibly in Leave constituencies otherwise I would expect more of a soft-brexit rebellion from them
_Modus_
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 15:04:27 (permalink)
Subsurface
Subsurface
Even given the fact that the majority of the population have no clue what effect leaving the EU might actually have, we should still have a referendum. It's the strongest form of democracy we have.

 
Oh how I've changed my tune on this. 




Possibly with the benefit of hindsight that original post looks insanely naive. 
 
Cameron should've known better though the fucking ruinous cuntmop.
Roboraver
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 15:11:31 (permalink)
A mate who works for home office has seen the impact papers, his exact words were "We need to stop this fucckery from happening as there will be a recession for the next 30 years, even longer".
 
gutlessrhyme
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 15:27:37 (permalink)
Roboraver
A mate who works for home office has seen the impact papers, his exact words were "We need to stop this fucckery from happening as there will be a recession for the next 30 years, even longer".
 




Ah yes, the papers that are being written but the Tories keep lobbing to the back of the cupboard under the stairs before anyone sees them.
SmokedEggs
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 15:30:50 (permalink)
Roboraver
A mate who works for home office has seen the impact papers, his exact words were "We need to stop this fucckery from happening as there will be a recession for the next 30 years, even longer".
 




stop talking the economy down!  you might hurt its feelings when we take back control of the world
RAYZA
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 15:34:21 (permalink)
Domino
SW14
Should have another referendum on the final deal offered when it isn't a whimsical, nebulous concept and is just cold, hard facts.




This. At least then, people would know what they are voting for. I will still never understand how people voted leave in the first place when there was never any kind of exit strategy offered. 


Your average Brexiteer isn't a deep thinker
Arcadian
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 16:13:46 (permalink)
most people didn't give a shit how it happens/happened, just that it did/does.
the actual practicalities are the job of politicians
 
that's still the case from the over 50s I meet, who also happen to be the only brexiters I know
post edited by Arcadian - 2017/10/26 16:15:29
darkmatter
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 18:00:31 (permalink)
Funny reading back, I was moaning about QE quite a lot, still some very conflicting views among experts: https://www.ft.com/conten...11e7-8c12-5661783e5589

PapaJaro
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 21:45:04 (permalink)
darkmatter
Funny reading back, I was moaning about QE quite a lot, still some very conflicting views among experts: https://www.ft.com/conten...11e7-8c12-5661783e5589

Paywall ting. 
SW14
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 23:08:00 (permalink)
Can someone please explain to me how "no deal" is being touted as a sound option from some in the Brexit camp?

No deal would mean all flights being instantly grounded, no deal would mean uncertainty for citizens, no deal would instantly overwhelm customs and excise.

How can people seriously be suggesting it would be positive? I bet there are untold things that we take for granted (like the open skies agreement) that need to be negotiated for the country to avoid grinding to a halt.
Handsome B Wonderful
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 23:14:32 (permalink)
Because it's a soundbite that fuckwits have latched onto and have absolutely no idea, nor desire to learn, what the implications are. Or they even know and don't care, which was an alarming statistic I can't be arsed to find.
 
From the politicians etc suggesting it, I'm convinced it's a bluff they're trying to pass off as a bargaining chip. They've been on about this since the election and it seemed to resonate with the hard line brexiters so they've stuck with it. In reality I don't think they will allow it to go ahead.
Handsome B Wonderful
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 23:16:06 (permalink)
Arcadian
 
the actual practicalities are the job of politicians
 




 
Or the job of all the people who said we shouldn't do it. "You didn't want it but you'll fucking do it and make sure it goes well!"
RAYZA
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 23:25:56 (permalink)
The logic from people who sound like they would be happy with no deal seems to be no deeper than 'lets not give these foreigners any of our money'
OEM
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 23:50:36 (permalink)
It's in everyone's interest to strike a deal. What the EU fundamental wants is to give access at a price for them that includes free movement. That is simply not going to happen with this government. No deal is what the hard liners want, pragmatists see it different. CEOs already putting into place their contingency plans.


https://www.standard.co.u...rankfurt-a3663126.html


SW14
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/27 00:02:56 (permalink)
No deal would literally mean the country grinding to a halt. No deal would mean no access to EU airspace and vice versa. It's an unthinkable option.
Goodone
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/27 00:40:19 (permalink)
I thought its in response to the eu's negotiating tactics designed to make life as uncomfortable as possible for us in the hope that brexit implodes... not sure anyone actually wants a cliff edge scenario however there's always going to be posturing and hubris in a negotiation like this.

Actually think David Davis is doing an ok job all things considered playing the long game and not getting sucked into traps that the eu set
SW14
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/27 00:51:41 (permalink)
I used to really like him, he was big on parliamentary democracy, took a stand on Orwellian Labour ID cards and our addiction to CCTV.

Now he's riding roughshod over parliamentary sovereignty by saying there may not be a meaningful vote and making a number of embarrassing gaffes.

We can't play the long game really, the clock is ticking. None of May's team or May herself fil me with any confidence.
Goodone
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/27 01:00:33 (permalink)
Yeah it's been an embarrassing fall from grace for May and really difficult to see how the Tory party will be able to inspire people to vote for them in the next election... just seem totally lost and out of touch to me

're the vote I understand why it's a good thing in principle but can't see it working in practice, too many cooks and all that... that's before taking into account mps who are categorically pro remain or may have party political or their own strategic agendas... the public's voted we have to hold our nose and hope for the best lol
SW14
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/27 01:15:23 (permalink)
We've voted but if the final deal is a crock of shit then we should have a chance to have a meaningful say on something tangible rather than theoretical, either through parliament or plebiscite.
Goodone
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/27 01:28:27 (permalink)
I think it's unlikely to be that cut and dry... some people's good might be someone else's bad and are we really going to know that much more in 1 years time? The vote will still be highly speculative and just be seen as a rerun of referendum.

Plus it takes the pressure off eu and almost incetivises them to give us a shit deal... So I think whilst it's an attractive prospect in theory i can't see how it will do anything than make matters even worse for us.
DrumBongo
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/27 09:31:34 (permalink)
Goodone
Plus it takes the pressure off eu and almost incetivises them to give us a shit deal... So I think whilst it's an attractive prospect in theory i can't see how it will do anything than make matters even worse for us.



I've heard this argument a number of times and I think the argument works in the other direction too.
 
Without the possibility of parliamentary oversight of the future UK-EU relationship those negotiating on behalf of the country wouldn't be incentivised to return with a deal that is acceptable to Parliament and could just return with any old bollocks and could still make the argument that EU were only going to give us a shit deal.
 
To be fair, parliament had to the opportunity to give themselves more oversight of the final brexit deal but snuffed it when they passed through the article 50 bill, which actually doesn't offer anything beyond accepting they deal May, Davis et al return with or WTO rules
 
https://www.newstatesman....it-deal-no-promise-all
Aunty West
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/27 10:29:41 (permalink)
SW14
No deal would literally mean the country grinding to a halt. No deal would mean no access to EU airspace and vice versa. It's an unthinkable option.



 
You sure about that airspace thing SW14? Sounds a bit wrong to me
Duderonomy
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/27 10:39:54 (permalink)
TravisBickle
I'll be voting out. I don't understand anything about the EU or why it's good for us but I genuinely don't give a fuck and I hope we leave 'cos it might be funny.


‘Kin hell.
Duderonomy
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/27 10:42:02 (permalink)
geordie007
SW14
No deal would literally mean the country grinding to a halt. No deal would mean no access to EU airspace and vice versa. It's an unthinkable option.



 
You sure about that airspace thing SW14? Sounds a bit wrong to me


Google “Brexit airspace” for an idea of how fucked the UK could be if the EU doesn’t want to play nice.
gutlessrhyme
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/27 10:45:44 (permalink)
geordie007
SW14
No deal would literally mean the country grinding to a halt. No deal would mean no access to EU airspace and vice versa. It's an unthinkable option.



 
You sure about that airspace thing SW14? Sounds a bit wrong to me


No he's right.
Aunty West
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/27 10:49:10 (permalink)
Duderonomy
geordie007
SW14
No deal would literally mean the country grinding to a halt. No deal would mean no access to EU airspace and vice versa. It's an unthinkable option.



 
You sure about that airspace thing SW14? Sounds a bit wrong to me


Google “Brexit airspace” for an idea of how fucked the UK could be if the EU doesn’t want to play nice.



 
Had a scan of a few articles there and to be honest the large European legacy carriers would have a lot to lose as well from the loss of shared airspace seeing as Heathrow is such a hub for them and after a glance at flight radar earlier when I saw SW14 post that there were at least 5 airlines currently overhead that did not start in the uk and for them to have to divert round us would just add extra costs to them so I'm sure they'll all be lobbying hard for this to carry on.
SmokedEggs
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/27 10:52:52 (permalink)
gutlessrhyme
geordie007
SW14
No deal would literally mean the country grinding to a halt. No deal would mean no access to EU airspace and vice versa. It's an unthinkable option.


You sure about that airspace thing SW14? Sounds a bit wrong to me


No he's right.



It's not just airspace.  We will probably have food shortages.  
 
We don't have any of the necessary infrastructure in place to suddenly have large scale customs checks at our borders.  Lorries already backup the motorways leading to Dover regularly in the summer.  If there is a no-deal exit then the ports could clog up overnight.

How long will it take to train and equip thousands of customs officers, and to setup the computer systems that they will need to use to do their job?  That alone would be an ambitious task to complete within a five year period, let alone overnight.
 
Brexit is a reality check for the UK.  Most of the people arguing for it are hankering after the days of the UK being a global superpower.  Those days are long gone.  
 
We could leave the EU and things will carry on.  We won't all die overnight.  But it will be a massive inconvenience with massive immediate and long term disadvantages to the UK, and with few, very questionable long term benefits. 
 
The amount of time, effort, money and stress that will be required to leave the EU and be independent again, will be so huge that it will be comparable only to the outbreak of the second world war.  Whole new ministries and departments will need to be setup overnight, from scratch.  And this will have to be done by a Party that fundamentally does not believe in the power of government to make a difference, and that has been at war with the public sector for the past ten years.  It does not bode well for their chances of making it a success, does it?
 
 
post edited by SmokedEggs - 2017/10/27 10:58:43
gutlessrhyme
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/27 10:53:39 (permalink)
It's all well and good lobbying but every single business sector will all be lobbying for a deal for their particular area, how will it be prioritised? A deal for everyone will take fucking years so someone is going to lose out. Its a complete shitshow
gutlessrhyme
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/27 10:53:39 (permalink)
It's all well and good lobbying but every single business sector will all be lobbying for a deal for their particular area, how will it be prioritised? A deal for everyone will take fucking years so someone is going to lose out. Its a complete shitshow
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