Helpful ReplyHot!To Brexit or not to Brexit?

Page: < 12345.. > >> Showing page 4 of 68
Author
JUDGEDREDD
  • Total Posts : 11697
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/02/23 17:38:02 (permalink)
Ft. Away boyz
#91
darkmatter
  • Total Posts : 18740
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/02/23 19:37:35 (permalink)
For the pro Europe people. Do any of you understand OMT / ECB QE policies, or feel we've had any chance to have democratic input in to a policy that fundamentally changes the role of the ECB and has potential to cause massive market distortion?

#92
dotarr
  • Total Posts : 5117
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/10 14:30:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dj_elevate 2016/03/11 23:23:06
Articles like this from the scientific community etc are interesting me in this debate.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/10/brexit-disaster-for-uk-science-say-scientists-stephen-hawking
 
Now, you could argue that outside the EU the money we currently put in would be ours to do what we like with, rather than the EU taking it then giving it back to scientists.
 
The UK government doesn't really like scientists most of the time, mainly because they have the temerity to not be entrepreneurs or investors.
 
Usually when science is getting congratulated it's because it can be harnessed by those two groups. The notion that science is valuable for it's own sake, or that you've sometimes got to let people piss into the wind to come up with something useful is not a view the government or business share.
 
It's the same story with meaningless words like 'innovation'; the government and business want to be leaders in it, whatever it is, but in their drive to maximize profit and minimize losses, it creates environments that are hostile to people trying to do things that are remotely innovative.
 
TL;DR - I'd rather Europe took money off the UK and gave it to scientists than the government keep the money for themselves and not give it to scientists.
#93
Eazyflow
  • Total Posts : 3387
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 12:40:16 (permalink)
darkmatter
For the pro Europe people. Do any of you understand OMT / ECB QE policies, or feel we've had any chance to have democratic input in to a policy that fundamentally changes the role of the ECB and has potential to cause massive market distortion?



Not a Scooby mate. That's why I made the point earlier about me and the vast majority of the population being unqualified to make an informed decision.
 
Daily Mash sums it up pretty well imo:
 
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/man-to-carefully-weigh-up-pros-and-cons-of-eu-then-just-be-racist-20160307106893

OLD SKOOL FOR SALE:


"If you don't know the roots from the trunk of the tree, you won't know the branches or what the fruit will b
#94
Eazyflow
  • Total Posts : 3387
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 12:40:30 (permalink)
.

OLD SKOOL FOR SALE:


"If you don't know the roots from the trunk of the tree, you won't know the branches or what the fruit will b
#95
Eazyflow
  • Total Posts : 3387
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 12:40:26 (permalink)
.

OLD SKOOL FOR SALE:


"If you don't know the roots from the trunk of the tree, you won't know the branches or what the fruit will b
#96
gutlessrhyme
  • Total Posts : 23159
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 16:20:19 (permalink)
What happens to TTIP if we exit, does it mean we're put of that too?

Can TTIP be negotiated if we stay in or is it a done deal?
#97
gutlessrhyme
  • Total Posts : 23159
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 16:20:17 (permalink)
What happens to TTIP if we exit, does it mean we're put of that too?

Can TTIP be negotiated if we stay in or is it a done deal?
#98
EasyPZ
  • Total Posts : 345
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 16:21:15 (permalink)
im all for independence but i think we need to maintain close political ties with our european neighbours for at least another decade. as said there will be severe market distortion and a lot of independent businesses (foreign) will gradually start to fail and restart in other eu cities. it will fuck our economy
#99
dotarr
  • Total Posts : 5117
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 16:26:33 (permalink)
gutlessrhyme
What happens to TTIP if we exit, does it mean we're put of that too?

Can TTIP be negotiated if we stay in or is it a done deal?

Britain would need to negotiate its own trade deal with the US. Which, given our 'special relationship' with the US where we do everything it says in return for being able to say we're mates it likely wouldn't be any more in our favor.
 
What you also need to consider is that the EU itself has set prices for trading various things depending on how much it wants them, with non-EU members that are very much in its favor.
 
Norway gets a good deal in this because oil and gas are something the EU wants, but by their own admission the cost to them is almost as much as being in the EU.
edmc
  • Total Posts : 10387
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 17:59:07 (permalink)
Don't any of you worry about being unemployed as a result of Brexit?

That's my main concern - you can argue til the cows come home about "wouldn't it be great being 'independent" (so called independent) but if the price is my earnings dropping or disappearing for 2 years or never recovering no thanks.

If you're a millionaire maybe it's no worries. Surprise surprise it's wealthy politicians and newspaper proprietors see a potential growth in their wealth.

Our economy is nothing like Norway's or Switzerland's and would take years to emulate though I doubt it's possible because the pretexts for the wealth of the two examples everyone cites is purely accidental.

For starters our politicians are cunts.
post edited by edmc - 2016/03/11 18:00:37

EasyPZ
  • Total Posts : 345
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 18:10:53 (permalink)
Very well put ed and it's worth mentioning that not only our politicians cunts but have no patriotism at all. and they will be at the helm if the brexit happens lol yes that will be great for our nation
dotarr
  • Total Posts : 5117
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 18:16:43 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby JaZ517 2016/03/23 15:18:15
Patriotism means precisely fuck all in a world of international markets.
EasyPZ
  • Total Posts : 345
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 18:17:10 (permalink)
and yep switzerland and norway have always maintained a neutral stance. are we neutral? Ha!
dotarr
  • Total Posts : 5117
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 18:18:04 (permalink)
edmc
Don't any of you worry about being unemployed as a result of Brexit?

That's my main concern - you can argue til the cows come home about "wouldn't it be great being 'independent" (so called independent) but if the price is my earnings dropping or disappearing for 2 years or never recovering no thanks.

If you're a millionaire maybe it's no worries. Surprise surprise it's wealthy politicians and newspaper proprietors see a potential growth in their wealth.

Our economy is nothing like Norway's or Switzerland's and would take years to emulate though I doubt it's possible because the pretexts for the wealth of the two examples everyone cites is purely accidental.

For starters our politicians are cunts.


Less unemployment and more the stripping of worker's rights. Some greedy bastards will be rubbing their hands wanting to make us more like America.
EasyPZ
  • Total Posts : 345
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 18:18:10 (permalink)
patriotism is relevant in this situation though....
dotarr
  • Total Posts : 5117
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 18:19:39 (permalink)
EasyPZ
and yep switzerland and norway have always maintained a neutral stance. are we neutral? Ha!


Norway's an incredibly rich Scandinavian socialist utopia. We should be more like it but we won't.
gutlessrhyme
  • Total Posts : 23159
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 19:22:03 (permalink)
edmc
Don't any of you worry about being unemployed as a result of Brexit?


I work for a German firm who have made it very clear they are in favour of the UK staying in.
That said, if we do a Brexit, I would imagine it'll make fuck all difference, really. They're not going to suddenly pack everything up and head back to Germany.
darkmatter
  • Total Posts : 18740
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 21:44:41 (permalink)
edmc
Don't any of you worry about being unemployed as a result of Brexit?




Yeah but I worry equally that the ECB / EU Council / ECJ may be engineering further financial instability that could further entrench the wealth gap, leaving us all poorer overall. As a recent example, the main interest rate has gone to zero, massively affecting stock markets and currency prices. This was supposedly a 'surprise' measure to ward off a further crash, and it's debatable whether these measures really have a positive effect or are somewhere between silly confidence games and dangerous market distortions. But who decided on this? The ECB is democratically illegitimate and has no right to have such a large say over our lives.
 
It's exactly the same with OMT. We don't know the scope yet, as something like that is a bit "how long is a piece of string?", but as an example in England we've spent over £400 billion on quantitative easing - it's not small money and shouldn't be happening without proper democratic debate or controls.
 
At least with the UK government we could get rid of them after 5 years - with the EU we're still in despite a majority of our MEPs being from a 'UK Independence' party.

2ndPhase
  • Total Posts : 2705
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 22:18:04 (permalink)
I can't be arsed to read through this thread though what concerns me is with little than 3 months to go there seems little literature out there giving people the basics on the pros and cons of staying in or out.
 
I think that people are generally quite fickle and a little thick so there really should be an idiots guide to what your decision might mean.
 
For what it's worth I will be voting to stay, I'm a big believer in bringing people together.  I can't really see the future of mankind lasting without becoming one.
 
GIRL POWER AND ALL THAT SHIT.
darkmatter
  • Total Posts : 18740
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 23:33:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby PapaJaro 2016/03/25 15:41:24
2ndPhase
I can't be arsed to read through this thread though what concerns me is with little than 3 months to go there seems little literature out there giving people the basics on the pros and cons of staying in or out.
 
I think that people are generally quite fickle and a little thick so there really should be an idiots guide to what your decision might mean.
 
For what it's worth I will be voting to stay, I'm a big believer in bringing people together.  I can't really see the future of mankind lasting without becoming one.
 
GIRL POWER AND ALL THAT SHIT.


I don't understand this. People asking for facts about a massively complex hypothetical situation.

dotarr
  • Total Posts : 5117
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 23:41:28 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby sectionate 2017/10/26 14:40:09
darkmatter

At least with the UK government we could get rid of them after 5 years - with the EU we're still in despite a majority of our MEPs being from a 'UK Independence' party.


I disagree. The EU has some long term goals and provides a bit of direction that successive governments of both sides have failed to address precisely because they're too busy being short-sighted wankers unable to see past the next election.
FightMeIRL
  • Total Posts : 1090
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/11 23:42:27 (permalink)
I'll be voting out. I don't understand anything about the EU or why it's good for us but I genuinely don't give a fuck and I hope we leave 'cos it might be funny.
darkmatter
  • Total Posts : 18740
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2016/03/22 18:41:06 (permalink)
simon.r
darkmatter

At least with the UK government we could get rid of them after 5 years - with the EU we're still in despite a majority of our MEPs being from a 'UK Independence' party.


I disagree. The EU has some long term goals and provides a bit of direction



 
I know I'm being pedantic here but I don't think you're disagreeing, as we're both stating what is either a disadvantage or an advantage depending on a million other unknowns. If a policy is good and the EU entrenches it over the long term, that's good as you say. If a policy is bad, it is entrenched over the long term, and that is bad.
 
What do you think of this? http://www.cobdencentre.org/2014/09/as-germany-loses-battle-for-ecb-qe-goes-global/ http://www.cobdencentre.org/2014/04/ecb-embraces-qe-faulty-logic/ more here: http://www.cobdencentre.org/author/dschlichter/
 

gutlessrhyme
  • Total Posts : 23159
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 13:29:27 (permalink)
^^ Interesting reading back to people's thought before the vote
Subsurface
  • Total Posts : 16074
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 13:36:13 (permalink)
Subsurface
Even given the fact that the majority of the population have no clue what effect leaving the EU might actually have, we should still have a referendum. It's the strongest form of democracy we have.

 
Oh how I've changed my tune on this. 
RAYZA
  • Total Posts : 96966
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 13:39:39 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Cherno Samba 2017/10/26 14:03:10
Obviously fucking not and anyone who ever thought it was a good idea should probably just die
SW14
  • Total Posts : 13669
  • Status: online
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 13:59:00 (permalink)
Should have another referendum on the final deal offered when it isn't a whimsical, nebulous concept and is just cold, hard facts.

I'd have thought that all but the most fanatical Brexiters are sick of the black cloud hanging over UK governance and the country as a whole basically paralysing it beyond painstaking negotiations.

We aren't in Schengen, we don't have the Euro so really we are shielded from the worst Eurozone aspects.

Allow it imo, but it needs a vote to ratify any annulment.
DrumBongo
  • Total Posts : 2780
  • Status: offline
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 14:09:49 (permalink)
SW14
Should have another referendum on the final deal offered when it isn't a whimsical, nebulous concept and is just cold, hard facts.

I'd have thought that all but the most fanatical Brexiters are sick of the black cloud hanging over UK governance and the country as a whole basically paralysing it beyond painstaking negotiations.

We aren't in Schengen, we don't have the Euro so really we are shielded from the worst Eurozone aspects.

Allow it imo, but it needs a vote to ratify any annulment.



Unfortunately, about 80% of Tory MP's are are fanatical Brexiters and due to May's weak position she has to play up to their rabid euro-scepticism to keep herself in her job to the detriment of the rest of the country.
SW14
  • Total Posts : 13669
  • Status: online
Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2017/10/26 14:13:14 (permalink)
Not true. According to the FT, most Tory MP's are now remain (176 of 314).
Page: < 12345.. > >> Showing page 4 of 68
Jump to:
© 2018 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.0