Helpful ReplyHot!To Brexit or not to Brexit?

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frizzyd
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 14:53:08 (permalink)
dazdsb
I post on another forum and some guy on there was creaming himself about being able to buy fucking apples from Africa post-Brexit or some shit. like, honestly - the straw-clutching is just incredible to behold. 


 
Hang on, surely post-brexit we would eat facking proper British apples, no more shit facking foreign apples?
 
Well other than out of season when we would still be eating the same African apples which we have eaten for years...
 
I am confused
post edited by frizzyd - 2018/07/17 14:54:09
wiseacre
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 14:55:47 (permalink)

no
S8
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 14:58:36 (permalink)
KNUCKLES
Goodone 
 our economy is doing even better since Brexit 


 
Should be quoted on every page tbh
gutlessrhyme
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 15:20:52 (permalink)
wiseacre
Good thread

https://mobile.twitter.co...us/1018988374877761536



Thought this was rather interesting
 

wiseacre
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 15:34:45 (permalink)
but then you find most visio flowcharts interesting 

no
Geordie007
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 15:45:21 (permalink)
frizzyd
geordie007
sectionate
frizzyd
In the context of the Irish and Gibraltar border issues, this is the so-called 'easy' one: https://www.theguardian.c...astrophe-due-to-brexit

Anyone who has spent anytime in East Kent knows how fucked the whole region gets when there are any sort of delays on either the ferry's or tunnel.

If the UK border moves back from the french side following Brexit, fuck knows where they are going to physically put it, due to these large white things called the white cliffs of Dover, there is literally no space on the Dover side to undertake any form of proper border controls or checks.

250 odd days to go and there appears to be no unified government plan and little to no planning on how in practice anything is going to work - the mind boggles.



It is interesting to read that the French have purchased a huge amount of land, started planning the required infrastructure and are looking to hire 700 odd people (not all of Calais).

What has the UK done? Nothing. Not a thing, I wonder if the Border Force numbers have increased or decreased since article 50?


they were meant to purchase 250 acres for a similar schem but as i mentiones before it wouldnt have worked due to location



You are talking at cross-purposes, the land bought in the UK was for the Lorry park to alleviate the issues created by Operation Stack but this still has not been built, agreed or anything.
 
The land S8 is referring to has been bought by the french to increase the capacity of the new UK/EU border which will follow post Brexit to ensure they have sufficient capacity to check vehicles coming from the UK into the EU.
 
And the UK borders added in Calais both at the Ferry Port and Eurotunnel were to help prevent the flow of migrants trying to get on to Lorry's so they were discovered in france rather than the UK and we didn't have to deal with the issue.
 
There is a UK / France border in Folkestone for the Tunnel and there is a France / UK border in Calais going the other way. There are also border controls for both the UK/French borders situated in Calais for the Ferry's - the only infrastructure which exists in Dover is a Lorry Scanning device and a small border post to stop the odd vehicle here and there coming into the UK - less than 1% of vehicles get stopped as there are only about 8 bays in the whole facility. Currently there are no controls in Dover for anything crossing into France as there simply is not the space as the port is stuck between the sea, the cliffs and Dover town itself.
 
Although the tunnel can probably manage by expanding the facility (although you would assume land needs to be purchased and shit needs building in the next 200 odd days.), there is no space at Dover to carry out effective border controls in the event of a hard border with the EU - does this make it any clearer how fucked the area will be if the Port of Dover needs inbound and outbound border posts situated within it?
 
It is not simply a case of rescheduling a few Ferry's, there will literally be queues of Lorry's for tens of miles for most of the year - the economic effect is unimaginable as is the inconvenience for those living in East Kent but then again it is an area staunchly pro-brexit so I guess you reap what you sow on that one!
 
Your point regarding having border controls in Dover previously before is a moot one, in the last 5 years  lorry traffic though the Port has increased by a 3rd, that has only been possible due to the relocation of pretty much the entire UK border force at Dover to Calais to carry out checks there.
 
As I said from the start, this border is the so-called easy one Vs Ireland / Gibraltar but yet the impact is significantly greater and there seem to be no plans being put in place whatsoever.
 
The only word which springs to mind in relation to the entire way the government has approached the whole process of Brexit is Clusterfuck.
 
 
 
 


you seemed to have ignored the very salient point about getting the lorries off the road in the first place but ill let that one pass.

i never menrioned about reshudilng ferries ( i dont hink) but did mention you can only load/unload a ferry in a certain amou t of time whilst also getting them through the rest of the traffic in the channel, yes the amount of lorries using the port has increased but i didnt make any moot point as both ports can only handle a certain amount of ferries going in and out at one time and that capacity is nearly full and it is that that is strangling what can be done not any sort of border checks so your claims of lorries backing up for miles around is just not true im afraid as making people get there for their sheduled trip 30 minutes earlier is neither here nor there.
but you can avoid my point about brussels getting in the way of any meaningful dialogue too if you want - one of the reasons aside from immigration that people were also fucked off about - meddling brussels!!
SW14
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 15:46:27 (permalink)
i never menrioned about reshudilng ferries ( i dont hink) but did mention you can only load/unload a ferry in a certain amou t of time whilst also getting them through the rest of the traffic in the channel, yes the amount of lorries using the port has increased but i didnt make any moot point as both ports can only handle a certain amount of ferries going in and out at one time and that capacity is nearly full and it is that that is strangling what can be done not any sort of border checks so your claims of lorries backing up for miles around is just not true im afraid as making people get there for their sheduled trip 30 minutes earlier is neither here nor there.


Longest (non custodial) sentence in the history of DNBA?
post edited by SW14 - 2018/07/17 15:49:45
wiseacre
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 16:11:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby 21 21 2018/07/17 16:17:21
meanwhile EU and Japan sign trade deal
 
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-18-3326_en.htm
 
 

no
frizzyd
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 16:14:05 (permalink)
geordie007
you seemed to have ignored the very salient point about getting the lorries off the road in the first place but ill let that one pass.

 
I didn't ignore the point, I just wasn't sure where you want to put the Lorries so didn't bother responding as there is literally no-where they can go. The Lorry park near the channel tunnel has still not been agreed and looks more likely not to happen than anything else. And the M2 is only dual carriageway in that part of Kent so an Operation Stack is not feasible so currently the only option which remains is Operation Stack on the M20.
 
I have the misfortune of knowing that part of the world too well as my rents have lived down there for 20 years!
 
geordie007
i never menrioned about reshudilng ferries ( i dont hink) 

 
Apologies, read your yield post wrong, tbh it is quite hard to read your phone posts including this one, full of typos and lacking in  punctuation.
 
geordie007but did mention you can only load/unload a ferry in a certain amou t of time whilst also getting them through the rest of the traffic in the channel, yes the amount of lorries using the port has increased but i didnt make any moot point as both ports can only handle a certain amount of ferries going in and out at one time and that capacity is nearly full and it is that that is strangling what can be done not any sort of border checks so your claims of lorries backing up for miles around is just not true im afraid as making people get there for their sheduled trip 30 minutes earlier is neither here nor there.

 
And again, it is not the capacity which is the issue, it is the space at Dover.
 
Even if only 4 ferries a day docked in Dover, there is simply insufficient space to carry out the required border checks in the event of a hard border - you can either bow to my greater knowledge of the area or just head to Dover Castle and the WWII & Cold War Tunnels, firstly it is a lovely day out, very interesting and informative, especially the tunnels, secondly you get a great aerial view of the Port of Dover and how small the site is, maybe then you understand and accept what I am saying.
 
 
geordie007
but you can avoid my point about brussels getting in the way of any meaningful dialogue too if you want - one of the reasons aside from immigration that people were also fucked off about - meddling brussels!!

 
I don't disagree with your EU point so didn't feel the need to comment, different agencies from France and the UK should be able to engage in discussion without being blocked by the EU.
 
 
wiseacre
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 16:15:21 (permalink)
worth remembering the jap's message to the UK after the referendum, still available on their foreign affairs website
 
https://www.mofa.go.jp/files/000185466.pdf
 
 
 

no
21 21
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 16:18:35 (permalink)
man, fuck this Brexit bullshit, honestly. 
 
I want in on that sweet EU-Japan deal. 
gutlessrhyme
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 16:19:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Will Mac 2018/07/18 14:53:44
dazdsb
man, fuck this Brexit bullshit, honestly. 
 
I want in on that sweet EU-Japan deal. 




You seem to like Japan, have you been?
Johnny Quest
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 17:14:43 (permalink)
Geordie's been on the sauce.
darkmatter
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 17:21:17 (permalink)
Daz just likes commandeering their alphabet for vaporwavey artwork usage.

21 21
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 17:36:26 (permalink)
gutlessrhyme
dazdsb
man, fuck this Brexit bullshit, honestly. 
 
I want in on that sweet EU-Japan deal. 




You seem to like Japan, have you been?




YES ACTUALLY M8 I HAVE
Whagwan
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/17 21:08:24 (permalink)
This Government just gets lower and lower. Tory MPs who were paired with Labour MPs on maternity leave went in and voted anyway.

Postman Pat
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/18 07:32:24 (permalink)
Fairly sensible torygraph article (rare these days)

https://www.telegraph.co....xit-getting-means-mrs/
Geordie007
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/18 08:53:44 (permalink)
frizzyd
geordie007
you seemed to have ignored the very salient point about getting the lorries off the road in the first place but ill let that one pass.

 
I didn't ignore the point, I just wasn't sure where you want to put the Lorries so didn't bother responding as there is literally no-where they can go. The Lorry park near the channel tunnel has still not been agreed and looks more likely not to happen than anything else. And the M2 is only dual carriageway in that part of Kent so an Operation Stack is not feasible so currently the only option which remains is Operation Stack on the M20.
 
I have the misfortune of knowing that part of the world too well as my rents have lived down there for 20 years!
 
geordie007
i never menrioned about reshudilng ferries ( i dont hink) 

 
Apologies, read your yield post wrong, tbh it is quite hard to read your phone posts including this one, full of typos and lacking in  punctuation.
 
geordie007but did mention you can only load/unload a ferry in a certain amou t of time whilst also getting them through the rest of the traffic in the channel, yes the amount of lorries using the port has increased but i didnt make any moot point as both ports can only handle a certain amount of ferries going in and out at one time and that capacity is nearly full and it is that that is strangling what can be done not any sort of border checks so your claims of lorries backing up for miles around is just not true im afraid as making people get there for their sheduled trip 30 minutes earlier is neither here nor there.

 
And again, it is not the capacity which is the issue, it is the space at Dover.
 
Even if only 4 ferries a day docked in Dover, there is simply insufficient space to carry out the required border checks in the event of a hard border - you can either bow to my greater knowledge of the area or just head to Dover Castle and the WWII & Cold War Tunnels, firstly it is a lovely day out, very interesting and informative, especially the tunnels, secondly you get a great aerial view of the Port of Dover and how small the site is, maybe then you understand and accept what I am saying.
 
 
geordie007
but you can avoid my point about brussels getting in the way of any meaningful dialogue too if you want - one of the reasons aside from immigration that people were also fucked off about - meddling brussels!!

 
I don't disagree with your EU point so didn't feel the need to comment, different agencies from France and the UK should be able to engage in discussion without being blocked by the EU.
 
 


yeah me phone posts can be poor at times however i wont carry on with trying to explain how things can work because its obviously going to fall on deaf ears because if its something that can work after brexit then its anathema to you because you want everyhing to fail with brexit so you caan say i told you so.
wiseacre
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/18 09:07:54 (permalink)
STOP TALKING BRITAIN DOWN
 
the whole thing is fucked. and so pointless.

no
Whagwan
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/18 09:45:09 (permalink)
The Tory rebels were basically held hostage by May/Tory whips threatening to hold a General Election that they'd lose FFS.  JRM is now in full control FFS.

As self serving as the originally anti-Trump Republicans now queueing to lick his arse.
RUSSELL CLARTY
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/18 10:28:22 (permalink)
May- support me or the old bitch gets it


Geordie007
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/18 10:36:38 (permalink)
Jungle Dave
May- support me or the old bitch gets it

poasibly her last roll of the dice to make her look strong and stable before the inevitable
Test Recordings
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/18 10:42:42 (permalink)
Postman Pat
Fairly sensible torygraph article (rare these days)

https://www.telegraph.co....xit-getting-means-mrs/



Who would replace her though? BoJo has proved to be such an ineffectual selfish wanker that I'm not sure even the tories want him as their leader, and David Davis is at odds with loads of his party because he wants a Brexit so hard it'd be like a granite cock. It'd end up as a general election and Corbyn winning imo, he's the only one left with a shred of credibility at this point
Subsurface
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/18 11:40:58 (permalink)
Remain would win another referendum going by these figures. Surely thats the best way to end this insanity.
 
"You lost the vote", "will of the people" etc.
 

 
 
SW14
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/18 11:52:50 (permalink)
Requires referendum legislation that took 7 months to get through last time as Parliament takes recess.

Not going to happen and even that poll, which splits the leave vote, is a coin toss (after polling understated the leave vote last time).
frizzyd
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/18 12:13:30 (permalink)
geordie007
however i wont carry on with trying to explain how things can work because its obviously going to fall on deaf ears because if its something that can work after brexit then its anathema to you because you want everyhing to fail with brexit so you caan say i told you so.



Wow, that's quite an assumption to make about my point of view.
 
If Brexit fails, the majority of us will be fucked so we all have a vested interest in trying to make this  work irrelevant of our own personal views. To be able to smugly say I told you so on this yellow board will be pretty low down on my list of priorities when both my wife and I will be fucked as both of our jobs are absolutely reliant on free trade with the EU.
 
To be honest, if you have something useful to say it will not full on deaf ears but on this particular subject you have done nothing other than chat absolute ill-informed shite
Geordie007
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/18 12:16:46 (permalink)
sorry frizzy theres no room for a lengthy reply. there used to be but isnt anymore
Lrrr
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/18 12:33:48 (permalink)
Subsurface
Remain would win another referendum going by these figures. Surely thats the best way to end this insanity.
 
"You lost the vote", "will of the people" etc.
 

 
 


I don’t nornally get involved in this nonsence but 47% of people voted their shouldn’t be a 3 way vote on the referendum, in the first poll it’s 50% vs 50% if you aggregate leave votes, and their isn’t a 3rd vote showing ‘leave with deal’ vs ‘remain’

FYI, I think we should remain, but posting that graphic as proof that remain is more popular is ridiculous. It’s pretty much still 50/50 and could go either way.

SW14
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/18 12:48:51 (permalink)
Lrrr
Subsurface
Remain would win another referendum going by these figures. Surely thats the best way to end this insanity.
 
"You lost the vote", "will of the people" etc.
 

 
 


I don’t nornally get involved in this nonsence but 47% of people voted their shouldn’t be a 3 way vote on the referendum, in the first poll it’s 50% vs 50% if you aggregate leave votes, and their isn’t a 3rd vote showing ‘leave with deal’ vs ‘remain’

FYI, I think we should remain, but posting that graphic as proof that remain is more popular is ridiculous. It’s pretty much still 50/50 and could go either way.


He’s mightily miffed and likely didn’t get much further than seeing remain had the biggest column.
Subsurface
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Re: To Brexit or not to Brexit? 2018/07/18 12:50:51 (permalink)
Lrrr
Subsurface
Remain would win another referendum going by these figures. Surely thats the best way to end this insanity.
 
"You lost the vote", "will of the people" etc.
 

 
 


I don’t nornally get involved in this nonsence but 47% of people voted their shouldn’t be a 3 way vote on the referendum, in the first poll it’s 50% vs 50% if you aggregate leave votes, and their isn’t a 3rd vote showing ‘leave with deal’ vs ‘remain’

FYI, I think we should remain, but posting that graphic as proof that remain is more popular is ridiculous. It’s pretty much still 50/50 and could go either way.



So according to these YouGov figures, if the referendum was presented with a three options remain would win by a large margin. If it was presented with two, remain would win 55% to 45%.
 
I fail to see how these figures are ridiculous. SW has pointed out that the polls were inaccurate in favour of leave last time, but thats not the point you are making.
 
I'm making the point that May could/could have used a second referendum as a democratic exit from this clusterfuck. Especially by using a three way poll, evidently. But even if it were a straight up 50/50 vote which could go either way, I would still welcome a 1/2 chance of getting out of this mess.
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