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Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/05 12:09:33 (permalink)
So it turns out Spiked-Online is being funded by the Koch brothers. 

Such a weird fucking story how the Revolutionary Communist Party transitioned into a right-wing libertarian front/sect/cult.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v32...GW0dI4rad21F3tIA_QWzSk
post edited by Whagwan - 2018/12/05 12:12:51
wiseacre
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/05 12:28:45 (permalink)
brexit going really well then. legal advice admits backstop will indefinitely tie UK to EU until a permanent deal agreed.
 
brexiteer shits like liam fox bemoaning parliamentary sovereignty despite is being one of their clarion calls of the past 3 years.
 
and govt getting bollocked for being complete cunts over windrush too. 
 
repeat after me: strong and stable

no
LHC
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/05 12:46:28 (permalink)
And yet Corbyn didn't mention any of that at PMQs. What a twat
KnuckleHead
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/05 13:09:42 (permalink)
If Corbyn just piles into the shit show then it could sour his ‘happy grandad’ image lol
Remember it’s this Gov that have made a Marxist/socialist look electable.
_Modus_
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/05 13:22:55 (permalink)
LHC
And yet Corbyn didn't mention any of that at PMQs. What a twat



Yeah I think the damage on Brexit is being dealt to May on a daily basis anyway. Corbyn doesn't really need to turn that screw. 
 
As for living standards, austerity, Universal Credit, food banks etc, these are the key areas that will win him an election, he hopes, and he has plenty of ammunition so I'm perfectly happy that he's focusing on these issues in PMQs.
 
Tbf, no one gives even the slightest shit about the PMQs head-to-head right now with the Brexit vote so close. He probably could have ranked the Star Wars films from best to worst and no one would've given it much notice compared to Brexit.  
_Modus_
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/05 13:26:32 (permalink)
In other news. Landslide vote of no confidence in Kate Hoey, my local MP. Nice to see for that shitty Farage collaborator.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/kate-hoey-vote-no-confidence-brexiteer-labour-vauxhall-mp-a8466001.html
 
 
wiseacre
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/05 13:44:43 (permalink)
does that article say only 45 of 2300 local members voted? she's a complete shit, but that's hardly a ringing endorsement.

no
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/05 13:57:46 (permalink)
LHC
And yet Corbyn didn't mention any of that at PMQs. What a twat



We've got 5 whole days of Brexit debate coming up, 30mins on living standards is hardly profligate.
LHC
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/05 14:10:43 (permalink)
Whagwan
LHC
And yet Corbyn didn't mention any of that at PMQs. What a twat



We've got 5 whole days of Brexit debate coming up, 30mins on living standards is hardly profligate.


DJModus
LHC
And yet Corbyn didn't mention any of that at PMQs. What a twat



Yeah I think the damage on Brexit is being dealt to May on a daily basis anyway. Corbyn doesn't really need to turn that screw. 
 
As for living standards, austerity, Universal Credit, food banks etc, these are the key areas that will win him an election, he hopes, and he has plenty of ammunition so I'm perfectly happy that he's focusing on these issues in PMQs.
 
Tbf, no one gives even the slightest shit about the PMQs head-to-head right now with the Brexit vote so close. He probably could have ranked the Star Wars films from best to worst and no one would've given it much notice compared to Brexit.  



Exactly, so stick the boot in as soon as possible, as often as possible and bring this rotten excuse for a government crashing to the ground.
21 21
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/05 14:45:44 (permalink)
LHC
And yet Corbyn didn't mention any of that at PMQs. What a twat



corbyn knows May is toast now - he doesn't need to waste time killing her off. 
 
he talked about austerity, poverty and food banks - he's on an election tip now and he's pointing the finger at the tories for the state of our economy, NHS, etc. because he needs to convince the nation that labour can fix that.
 
brexit is unravelling by the second - he's moving on to the next step. 
 
edit: basically what modus said
_Modus_
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/05 15:38:16 (permalink)
LHC
Whagwan
LHC
And yet Corbyn didn't mention any of that at PMQs. What a twat



We've got 5 whole days of Brexit debate coming up, 30mins on living standards is hardly profligate.


DJModus
LHC
And yet Corbyn didn't mention any of that at PMQs. What a twat



Yeah I think the damage on Brexit is being dealt to May on a daily basis anyway. Corbyn doesn't really need to turn that screw. 
 
As for living standards, austerity, Universal Credit, food banks etc, these are the key areas that will win him an election, he hopes, and he has plenty of ammunition so I'm perfectly happy that he's focusing on these issues in PMQs.
 
Tbf, no one gives even the slightest shit about the PMQs head-to-head right now with the Brexit vote so close. He probably could have ranked the Star Wars films from best to worst and no one would've given it much notice compared to Brexit.  



Exactly, so stick the boot in as soon as possible, as often as possible and bring this rotten excuse for a government crashing to the ground.




Well I think sticking the boot in on something like austerity and living standards is arguably better tactically. There's no way she can be more desperate in terms of Brexit right now, so I think it's effective to twist the knife on a separate area of her government's failings simultaneously.
 
Corbyn on Brexit, given his annoyingly non-confrontational style in PMQs and ambiguous stance on Brexit himself would have been invisible compared to the pretty brutal Brexit noise coming from the DUP and Tory MPs right now. 
darkmatter
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/05 20:46:54 (permalink)
In trying to maintain a united front on Brexit, Labour have very effectively shown a united front of deflection and not much else. It's going to be tough to change the perception now.
 
The polls probably say a "people's vote" is more popular than "let's just remain", so they're pursuing that - but they've clearly failed to articulate their position since the referendum. I wonder whether it would be better for them to bite the bullet and show some conviction at this stage and go for remain?
 
Otherwise it feels like they're just waiting to see what happens. In fact probably my biggest annoyance with Brexit is that it's made politics here feel quite "opposition-less". The debate about austerity just gets lost amongst the Brexit noise and to be fair I'm just as guilty of falling into this trap.

KnuckleHead
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/05 22:06:45 (permalink)
darkmatter
In fact probably my biggest annoyance with Brexit is that it's made politics here feel quite "opposition-less". .


I really struggle to see how this could be your biggest annoyance at this point lol
Brexit cuts through all parties, it’s just that the last lot of Tories were stupid enough to cause it and May’s team has gone on to fuck it up. And like I said, the Tories used to laugh at Corbyn and now this Gov has made him look electable so...
Not saying Labour could/would do better, we’d never know now.
gutlessrhyme
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 09:24:33 (permalink)
darkmatter
I wonder whether it would be better for them to bite the bullet and show some conviction at this stage and go for remain?


Been saying this for a while now; he needs to go all-in and take the gamble.
post edited by gutlessrhyme - 2018/12/06 13:30:21
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 09:39:46 (permalink)
Nah, letting the Tories tear themselves apart is working fine.  I have no idea why everyone seems to think alienating 48-52% (even allowing for changed minds) of the voting public would be a successful strategy,
Postman Pat
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SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 10:23:14 (permalink)
gutlessrhyme
darkmatter
I wonder whether it would be better for them to bite the bullet and show some conviction at this stage and go for remain?


Been saying this for a while now; he needs to go all-in and taken the gamble.


The protest politician prefers to umm and ahhh from the sidelines than have any kind of viable policy.
wiseacre
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 10:33:30 (permalink)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46360119


"More than 130,000 children across Great Britain will spend Christmas in temporary accommodation, official figures suggest.

One in every 103 under-18s is officially homeless, a 59% rise in five years, housing charity Shelter said."

What about corbyn though

no
_Modus_
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 10:35:13 (permalink)
SW14
gutlessrhyme
darkmatter
I wonder whether it would be better for them to bite the bullet and show some conviction at this stage and go for remain?


Been saying this for a while now; he needs to go all-in and taken the gamble.


The protest politician prefers to umm and ahhh from the sidelines than have any kind of viable policy.



On Brexit you mean?
 
In terms of general policies I think he's rather promising. Only this week they announced they would bring back Legal Aid for benefits appeals. A very good thing in my opinion. 
SmokedEggs
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 10:56:48 (permalink)
I reckon if labour go anti brexit now they'll be taken apart at an election. They'll gain a few tory safe seats but will lose out to UKIP and Tories in many others.

It's a nice idea to pretend that all Labour's support will support no Brexit but the reality is many of their safe seats voted to leave.

Labour need to box smart and let the Tories own this mess.
LHC
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 10:59:56 (permalink)
I'm not sure that's definitely true. It's difficult to trust any polling but this suggests otherwise:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/more-than-100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain
 
UKIP are dead. That much I am sure of.
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 11:31:17 (permalink)
One thing I didn't realise was that the "6 tests" were not that they were what Labour wanted so much as all promises that the Tories made regarding their Brexit deal, and it has been a case of holding them to account. 
 
This could have been communicated better.

The much derided Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? test is based on a speech by David Davis to the Commons, hence the quotation marks.
post edited by Whagwan - 2018/12/06 11:33:07
LHC
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 11:36:55 (permalink)
"The Maybot" really needs to take some lessons from the greatest political speech of the past 50 years.
 

SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 11:45:29 (permalink)
Whagwan
One thing I didn't realise was that the "6 tests" were not that they were what Labour wanted so much as all promises that the Tories made regarding their Brexit deal, and it has been a case of holding them to account. 
 
This could have been communicated better.

The much derided Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? test is based on a speech by David Davis to the Commons, hence the quotation marks.


😂
Postman Pat
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 11:45:48 (permalink)
I guess Labour are kinda caught between their tradition of representing the working class, many of whom think brexit is great (not saying that's because they're dumb (I am saying that)), and representing the youth and the uni educated but not yet rich enough to vote tory middle class, the vast majority of whom really don't think brexit is very good at all. 
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 12:02:00 (permalink)
SW14
Whagwan
One thing I didn't realise was that the "6 tests" were not that they were what Labour wanted so much as all promises that the Tories made regarding their Brexit deal, and it has been a case of holding them to account. 
 
This could have been communicated better.

The much derided Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? test is based on a speech by David Davis to the Commons, hence the quotation marks.


😂



Laugh all you like son, all I can say is that if Labour had gone Remain/2nd Ref from the start May would most likely have a super majority now and whatever Brexit deal she wanted. 

Really can't see how this could have been played any better for Labour, feel free to tell us how.
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 12:10:41 (permalink)
“Son”?

Calm down little fella.

Perhaps someone should’ve communicated this to Corbyn who has earnestly been pointing to “our six economic tests” in the despatch box, one of which is supposedly a quote from David Davies that Labour were ridiculing over two years ago.

4D chess.
Stoopid_Fux
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 12:12:29 (permalink)
wiseacre
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46360119


"More than 130,000 children across Great Britain will spend Christmas in temporary accommodation, official figures suggest.

One in every 103 under-18s is officially homeless, a 59% rise in five years, housing charity Shelter said."

What about corbyn though




Is this stat right ?
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 12:13:28 (permalink)
I fail to see how anything you have written contradicts my point.  Yes, they are Labour's 6 tests, based on promises made by the Tories.

This wasn't a point spotted by me, this is from Tom Kibasi, Director of the IPPR


For all your intellectual insight, you still haven't let us know how it could have been gamed any better by Labour. 
post edited by Whagwan - 2018/12/06 12:17:46
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/12/06 12:19:39 (permalink)
Anyway, let's not get into Whagwan V SW14 again, slipped there.

Boris in trouble for not declaring income.

"Boris Johnson failed on *nine* occasions to declare his earnings to parliament. The Commissioner for Standards is clear this was not an inadvertent error but a systematic disregard for the rules."
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