AnsweredHot!Politics Thread

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SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/02 14:07:04 (permalink)
You’re suggesting the government is deliberately understating the unemployment rate rather than using the same ONS figures that governments have always used.

You’re wrong - the government uses ONS figures for it’s unemployment rate.

Don’t claim falsehoods and conflate different measurements if you don’t want to be pulled up for it.
JUDGEDREDD
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/02 14:33:35 (permalink)
wiseacre
actual barrier to opportunity erected outside the conference
 



Christ you can't write that lol. Amazing.
_Modus_
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/02 15:24:53 (permalink)
Goodone
Sajid Javid's new initiative to tackle violent crime - crack down on middle class drug users... so not tackle the poverty and gang culture and the actual causes of violent crime!? Is it now ok to use the phrase - PC gone mad?



Woah man. I actually agree with all but the final sentence. What's happening?
 
Not clear on why it would be political correctness? Am I missing something?
 
Completely agree that it is a total waste of resources to go after middle class recreational drug users. I can't think of a single thing it would solve or improve. I don't even think a crackdown would diminish the amount of middle class people using drugs. It's pretty hard to police when half of 'em have a dark web delivery to the doorstep these days. 
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/02 15:48:06 (permalink)
 

 
Wow, BBC standing in solidarity with the other broadcasters.  
post edited by Whagwan - 2018/10/02 15:52:42
Aunty West
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/02 16:56:03 (permalink)
ffs neded to read it properly before i commented about it as only heard her on r4 this morning she not been on anything else then?
post edited by geordie007 - 2018/10/02 16:57:36
Aunty West
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/02 17:32:18 (permalink)
Juat read an apparent reply from him
https://order-order.com/2...witter_impression=true
Goodone
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/03 06:53:39 (permalink)
DJModus
Goodone
Sajid Javid's new initiative to tackle violent crime - crack down on middle class drug users... so not tackle the poverty and gang culture and the actual causes of violent crime!? Is it now ok to use the phrase - PC gone mad?



Woah man. I actually agree with all but the final sentence. What's happening?
 
Not clear on why it would be political correctness? Am I missing something?
 
Completely agree that it is a total waste of resources to go after middle class recreational drug users. I can't think of a single thing it would solve or improve. I don't even think a crackdown would diminish the amount of middle class people using drugs. It's pretty hard to police when half of 'em have a dark web delivery to the doorstep these days. 

To put simply it's not middle class kids causing the violent crime... to address the root of the issue would be to admit that successive government policies have lead to a breakdown in community, especially in poorer areas which are made up predominantly by 'minorities' and any heavy handed police tactics required to address the issue would instantly be politicised and called racist to score cheap political points at the expense of actually tackling the problem itself.

Glad we found some common ground though :)
post edited by Goodone - 2018/10/03 08:35:38
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/03 08:33:49 (permalink)
Them pesky ethnics yeah?
Goodone
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/03 08:36:23 (permalink)
Thanks for proving the point
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/03 09:57:10 (permalink)
All those 'minorities' stabbing each other in Glasgow. 
 
"80% + of Black Londoners live in environments 'similar' to East Glasgow. There is nothing mystical going on."
 
The problem ain't minorities, you ain't speaking truth, the problem is poverty.
 
I'll let Akala do the talking here:
 
https://threadreaderapp.c...30011610604818432.html
 

A thread on 'race and crime' in London and recent speech to the Howard league by met chief....


But first some personal background so you see how much skin I have in the game


My adopted 'nephew' was stabbed just two weeks ago.My step brother got stabbed on way 2 school a couple years ago


My homie from nursery is dead and 1st time I saw someone get chopped up I was 12/13


Despite being a straight A student, having a mum that loved me and many male role models by 16/17 I carried my knife to football training


Many many times.


So I think I *might* understand the problem a little better than the met do


Cressida Dick last week called for 'teenage thugs' to get tougher sentences. Numerous PHD's have shown this does not reduce crime


Just to be clear who she meant she pointed out that there have been 25 killings by teenagers in London this year. 21 'black' 4 'Asian'


The fact that the met are emphasising the race and continent of origin (4gens removed) of citizens tells its own story


There have been 117 murders in London this year 25 of teenagers. We may ask why emphasise teenagers at all? Seeing as less than 20%?


Let's remember that violent working class youth gangs stabbing eachother has been around in this country for well over a century


Historically by far the worst violence in Britain has been in Northern Ireland and Glasgow (neither exactly packed with black ppl!)


Naturally the much worse violence in Belfast and Glasgow has never been explained by skin colour


After decades of investment and attempts to change Glasgow still remains extremely violent

Glasgow’s dark legacy returns as gangland feuds erupt in public killings After decades spent reinventing its image, the city is plagued by the return of a brutal family struggle to control its drugs trade [link=https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/22/glasgow-gangland-feuds-erupt-in-public-killings]https://www.google.co.uk/...upt-in-public-killings [/link]







This violence in Glasgow is still so bad ppl getting shot outside of primary schools
Man shot in 'targeted attack' outside Glasgow primary school Heavy police presence around St George’s primary school, while shot man said to be in stable condition in hospital [link=https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/16/police-confirm-shooting-st-georges-primary-school-glasgow]https://www.google.co.uk/...primary-school-glasgow [/link]




no mention of skin colour


Remember the ice cream murders 6 ppl burned to death in their homes? Glasgow long been worse than London.


As someone who is half Scottish i find this attempt to racialise the crime of a tiny % of 'black' Londoners particularly crude


The attempts to solve the problem in Glasgow where multi-faceted and not just focused on locking up more kids actiononviolence.org.uk


So where does this leave us with London? Is there really a 'black' crime problem? Let's looks closer...


There are many different black communities in London so if blackness is the common cause the crime should affect all of them equally no?


In fact if blackness is the cause the blackest londoners (west Africans) should be the most criminal right? Does the data show this?


No in fact quite the opposite, the oldest group of black migrants to London (Caribbeans) r the ones most affected by this issue


Along with families from places with serious conflict like Somalia for example.


How are British west africans (the biggest black community) doing? Shall we have a look?


The link between expulsion from school and prison is SO direct that former head of the prison service said...


When we expell kids from school we may as well give them a prion sentence then and there


In recent years especially British African kids r no more likely to be expelled from school than white kids


Black African kids also do better on average since 2013 in GCSE's than the national average and better than 'white' kids


This academic success of African 'immigrant' children is particularly impressive for two reasons


Firstly african kids are concentrated in Hackney and Peckham etc (the hood) yet are still doing very well in school


Also national studies have shown that teachers consistently assess African kids as being far less smart than their tests show they r


Even in relation to Caribbeans.


If we was not so addicted to social darwinism West African kids might serve as an example to be imitated by other working class kids...


But then we would have to recognise that Black African kids r doing better in English schools than their supposed betters. So nope.


How are the stats for British Caribbeans as it relates to school expulsion?


since ethnic data started getting recorded British Caribbeans ALWAYS at at least 3x as likely to be expelled as white kids...


In any given year they might be 6x as likely to be expelled as white kids or now 'Africans' (including mixed heritage Caribbeans like me)


How come 'white' boys in east Glasgow are far more likely to to kill than the children of Ghanaian civil servants if blackness is the issu?


But obviously if we recognise that class is a FAR bigger predictor in this kind of violence than race we'd have to explain more


and explain how African kids in the same council estates as white Brits & Caribbeans r doing generally so much better.


When there are examples of black excellence is race emphasised?


Britain's brainiest family is black (the Imafidons) was race emphasises in the reporting? (do a search)


Joshua Beckford 6 years old from Tottenham studying philosophy at Oxford. His black dad taught him, was race emphasised in reporting?


England under 17 & under 20' both just won world cups both teams massively disproportionately 'black' was race emphasise in reporting?


So what can we conclude?


The METs own reports to parliament make it clear that they understand the causes of crime quite well I will post one later when at laptop


You will see the METS own report explicitly denies a social darwinian racial explanation for crime. Yet MRS dick and media still emphasise


By emphasising race we can avoid talking about the british class system of course...


by emphasising skin colour (ahistorically) we are actually not helping those specific communities most affected by these issues


For example when its pointed out that black brits are 7x as likely to be incarcerated the figure is likely to be far higher for Caribbeans


Would be interesting to see how much more likely a white kid from east glasgow is to go jail than one in Hampstead?


We already know that parts of Glasgow are so deprived that ppl live 20+ years less than the national average.


Britain's already imprisons ppl 2x as much as Germany 30/40 as much as France. 82% prison population growth is 30 years. 50% more women.


Britain's closest ally tried this 'tough on crime' approach and it's still by far the most violent industrial country.


The Met obviously knows this so if they are perusing the same strategy we can all conclude the aim is NOT to actually to solve the issue


And in all of this what about the millions of black, white and Asian teenagers living in concur estates that did not kill any1 this year?


Those that just wana finish school, get some kind of work and are shit scared of a tiny % of their peers?


I have a programme I'd like to propose that would cost a fraction of prison (for all the market lot) gonna talk to some teachers...


I will be writing a breakdown of this thread and the proposal for @metpoliceuk @SadiqKhan @jeremycorbyn look forward to hearing back. 👍🏾


End of thread. You lot have a nice day.


One final thing actually. I am obviously not against all random stop and search I accept that 4now this has to be part of a wider strategy


I am against the idea that random Ghanaian kids who r not even generally getting suspended from school should be targeted cos 'black'


Just a tiny few of the studies that I have based toady's thread on
Steve Strand. Minority Ethnic Pupils age 16 exam results.pdf Dropbox is a free service that lets you bring your photos, docs, and videos anywhere and share them easily. Never email yourself a file again! [link=https://www.dropbox.com/s/theqcjvjw7irt6x/Steve%20Strand.%20Minority%20Ethnic%20Pupils%20age%2016%20exam%20results.pdf?dl=0]https://www.dropbox.com/s...xam%20results.pdf?dl=0 [/link]








David Gillborn-Racism and education_ coincidence or conspiracy_ (2008).pdf Dropbox is a free service that lets you bring your photos, docs, and videos anywhere and share them easily. Never email yourself a file again! [link=https://www.dropbox.com/s/a83cmkznrwrubqz/David%20Gillborn-Racism%20and%20education_%20coincidence%20or%20conspiracy_%20%282008%29.pdf?dl=0]https://www.dropbox.com/s...%20%282008%29.pdf?dl=0 [/link]








Dangerous assocations Joint Enterprise gangs and racism.pdf Dropbox is a free service that lets you bring your photos, docs, and videos anywhere and share them easily. Never email yourself a file again! [link=https://www.dropbox.com/s/5x9wxqpfib8ln72/Dangerous%20assocations%20Joint%20Enterprise%20gangs%20and%20racism.pdf?dl=0]https://www.dropbox.com/s...0and%20racism.pdf?dl=0 [/link]








UK- the reality behind the ‘knife crime’ debate.pdf Dropbox is a free service that lets you bring your photos, docs, and videos anywhere and share them easily. Never email yourself a file again! [link=https://www.dropbox.com/s/fsqble56te7a156/UK-%20the%20reality%20behind%20the%20%E2%80%98knife%20crime%E2%80%99%20debate.pdf?dl=0]https://www.dropbox.com/s...0%99%20debate.pdf?dl=0 [/link]








The Numbers in Black and White.pdf Dropbox is a free service that lets you bring your photos, docs, and videos anywhere and share them easily. Never email yourself a file again! [link=https://www.dropbox.com/s/0uocls4rph14kwf/The%20Numbers%20in%20Black%20and%20White.pdf?dl=0]https://www.dropbox.com/s...20and%20White.pdf?dl=0 [/link]








RethinkingGangs-2008.pdf Dropbox is a free service that lets you bring your photos, docs, and videos anywhere and share them easily. Never email yourself a file again! [link=https://www.dropbox.com/s/btywr5ya8qfc8l6/RethinkingGangs-2008.pdf?dl=0]https://www.dropbox.com/s...ingGangs-2008.pdf?dl=0 [/link]







this classic is never out of date and ever relevant
Stuart Hall, etc.-Policing the Crisis_ Mugging, the State and Law and Order (Critical social studies) (1978).pdf Dropbox is a free service that lets you bring your photos, docs, and videos anywhere and share them easily. Never email yourself a file again! [link=https://www.dropbox.com/s/xrexfauoi03028t/Stuart%20Hall%2C%20etc.-Policing%20the%20Crisis_%20Mugging%2C%20the%20State%20and%20Law%20and%20Order%20%28Critical%20social%20studies%29%20%281978%29.pdf?dl=0]https://www.dropbox.com/s...%20%281978%29.pdf?dl=0 [/link]







publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cm…



Education, skills and training [link=https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training]https://www.ethnicity-fac...on-skills-and-training [/link]







publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cm…


I have a bag more obviously but I'm sure these shall suffice for now. Happy reading


Some additions to yesterday's thread:


Historically rooting the differential outcomes for 'Africans' and Caribbeans in the U.K. is not that complex...


Before I do so let's remember that historically grounding things is only considered 'excuse' making for certain people...


Also to be frank how someone can look at what i've done with my life knowing my upbringing and claim In 'excuse making' is loool


If we want to understand the poverty and violence of Glasgow, Belfast or former mining towns of the north we would historically explain..


So on to British Caribbeans:


In the 50's and 60's the govts and police did many reports on Caribbean migrants (cited in Gilroy and Paul)


Their general conclusions were clear: 95% employment and no more likely to commit crime than any others. So what changed?


Was there a genetic mutation with my pops generation? The ones born here that grew in the 70's and 80'?


Taking into account the specific history of the Caribbean too of course but clearly the problems were not 'imported'


Except for the shower man dem that were in Brixton and elsewhere in the 90's


West Africans just by virtue of *generally* coming later did not spend a generation fighting NF & Teddy boys...


Did not live through SUS laws and the violence and de-industrialisation up and down the country in the 80's etc etc


So the histories, stigmas and challenges are quite different. However....


British Caribbeans have always been far more overrepresented in 'British' cultural an sporting greatness than in prisons. But hey...


As well as massive contributions to changing the post war political landscape (see Gilroy, Hall, Carnival, Hackney empire etc)


So by many measures despite serious challenges we are actually doing very very well. Some can only see the badness though.


80% + of Black Londoners live in environments 'similar' to East Glasgow. There is nothing mystical going on.


Sunday Chronicle talking about 'the savagery of hooligan gangs' May 1916


London echo february 1898 talking about street gangs with knifes and guns in London, Birmingham, Manny, Liverpool


Surely British citizens - even Conservatives - would hope that the Chief of the MET has some historical knowledge of the problem/challenge?

post edited by Whagwan - 2018/10/03 10:11:09
S8
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/03 10:43:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby PapaJaro 2018/10/08 14:09:00
I love it when someone copies a massive article verbatim.
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/03 10:55:23 (permalink)
Meh, I could have just said the same but it wouldn't have been referenced to nearly the same level.

Also, I can't be bothered anymore
Aunty West
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/03 12:32:02 (permalink)
dunno why whagwan but that link wont open for me.
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/03 13:04:20 (permalink)
geordie007
dunno why whagwan but that link wont open for me.



It's all there copy+pasted anyway, I just put the link as source/credit.
Stoopid_Fux
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/03 13:34:54 (permalink)
jesus christ....
 

 
 
 
 
_Modus_
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/03 16:23:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby 21 21 2018/10/03 16:33:40
Yeah dance it up Theresa while the no confidence letters pile up, the Windrush fiasco simmers away, the Grenfell victims remain in limbo, homelessness in general at a ridiculous high point, there's a shortage of nurses but you're banning people from coming to the UK to fill the vacancies, Universal Credit and benefit sanctions continue to fuck over the most vulnerable, people are queuing outside hospitals, the trains are more expensive and shite than ever etc etc etc.
 
The leader of the country dancing away while the country slowly sleepwalks into the abyss. Fuck her and her scumpile of a party. 
RUSSELL CLARTY
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/03 16:26:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby 21 21 2018/10/03 16:34:33
You do admire her chutzpah to keep on trucking then remember that laundry list of utter incompetence and it hits you again, she's not a little girl being potty trained and getting it wrong, she's not a plucky apprentice punching on through his first two shaky weeks at work in the face of the interminable "tartan paint" gags etc- no, she's in charge of a £2 trillion economy and she is fucking shit. 


Stoopid_Fux
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/03 16:29:08 (permalink)
Laura Kuenssberg can't even be arsed to hide her bias these days it seems 
 
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1047440564705275910
 
u wot ??
_Modus_
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/03 16:34:33 (permalink)
Stoopid_Fux
Laura Kuenssberg can't even be arsed to hide her bias these days it seems 
 
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1047440564705275910
 
u wot ??




Jesus. She is literally the worst public speaker I've ever seen and she's the Prime Minister. She spent a good deal of the speech personally attacking Corbyn, rather than spelling out a plan to unfuck the country. It was a profoundly depressing speech. Kuenssberg can get fucked 'n' all. 
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/08 12:20:18 (permalink)
.
post edited by SW14 - 2018/10/08 12:26:40
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/09 08:45:53 (permalink)
Stoopid_Fux
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/09 12:07:57 (permalink)
wiseacre
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/09 15:56:19 (permalink)
Fucking lol

If SW14 was apoplectic at a cherry picking instagram jibe that's gonna send him too far. How dare he!

no
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/09 16:24:01 (permalink)
Boris compared the EU to Nazis, Jeremy Cunt to the USSR. 
 
Meanwhile our commentators are up in arms over a 1.5 second dance.
gutlessrhyme
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/09 16:33:37 (permalink)
Was gonna say, the express and mail will have kittens. HOW DARE HE!
Eazyflow
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/09 16:37:46 (permalink)
Stoopid_Fux
https://streamable.com/e0m88




The expression on his face

OLD SKOOL FOR SALE:


"If you don't know the roots from the trunk of the tree, you won't know the branches or what the fruit will b
Aunty West
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/09 16:37:49 (permalink)
https://labourlist.org/2018/10/we-demand-better-work-practices-writes-labour-party-staffer/
Stoopid_Fux
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/09 16:47:41 (permalink)
Junker is a pisshead . That said i would adore having a glass of (expensive- EU expenses etc !!!) wine with him rather than that awful Teressa May. 
post edited by Stoopid_Fux - 2018/10/09 16:49:16
wiseacre
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/09 16:59:56 (permalink)
Allegedly it's medication for his sciatica that makes him appear shitfaced. When mixed with copious amounts of wine.

Still, a complete pisshead manages to be more capable than the entire tory cabinet.

no
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/10/10 05:44:57 (permalink)
geordie007
https://labourlist.org/20...-labour-party-staffer/


Are the Labour right attacking Labour now for employment conditions they put in place which are steadily being rectified?

http://imgur.com/a/F0bzUyN
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