AnsweredHot!Politics Thread

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Whagwan
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 09:43:08 (permalink)
Yes.  ISIS are fascist and so is Wahhabism.  Hence why you have antifa and leftist volunteers going to join the YPG to fight them.  Note no right wingers or Tommy fans included in their number.

I do not believe you fight fascism with more fascism.
 
Do you disagree that making a list of a certain race and deporting them is fascist?
RUSSELL CLARTY
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 09:48:19 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Whagwan 2018/08/15 09:51:53

 



RUSSELL CLARTY
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 09:55:17 (permalink)


Whagwan
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 10:04:48 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Duderonomy 2018/08/15 10:53:23

A lot of you will have seen the Tommy Robinson video of him returning from prison to meet his kids - I'll start with a comrades response:

"In the 2hrs this video has been up its had 62k 'likes', 32k shares and over 11k comments- mostly UK based, with many self confessed mothers and grandmothers sharing- serious demographic shift.
 
The era of 'post-truth' politics is truly upon us- as the left scramble to 'disprove' Tommy's narrative constructed around his imprisonment, this savvy media manipulator exploits his own children's grief in order to provide an emotion ridden roller-coaster (including pathos inducing muzak) designed to foster the maximum of human solidarity and feeling. The left needs to radically re-think its relation to media content in this context- being 'right' isn't cutting it anymore."
 
I could not agree more. But why am I personally enraged?

I have already spent 2 years giving you this far better story, with open access to its subjects. Yes, Rojava. The story of when the left, not the right, fought ISIS - and lterally won. And we had, and have, every reason to make that story about us in the UK and our struggle against fascism, for dignity, justice and socialism.
Over 100 volunteers from the UK and nearby fought ISIS, a significant number of them left wing, and the YPG is itself incredibly left wing.
 
Eight of us died.
 
Yet no one on the left thought the obvious - even when I made it explicitly clear that this was the aim of my group there (the Bob Crow Brigade), to help you turn this story into left-wing, anti-fascist propaganda to undermine the EDL and similiar, to lionise the volunteers, to use their stories to raise the whole left. I anonymised it too, so alternatively, if people preferred not to make it about personalities (a mistake in my view) all people had to do would have been say, wear YPG or Bob Crow Brigade badges or shirts, write graffiti like the 'Free Tommy' lot did, or mention it to their colleagues or online. Yes this happened but in completely insignificant numbers.
 
Left propaganda right now amounts 100 wannabe commentators looking to be the next Paul Mason or Polly Toynbee, not Che Guevara's and Fidel Castro's, not Ivana Hoffmann's and Ahed Tamimi's.
Left propaganda is not fighting to win, it is not even fighting to upset or provoke; it is still the domain of 'nice' people called Tim and Violet doing something 'nice' with the 'nice' education they picked up; well, fuck being nice.
 
Not only are the enemy not nice, be they Tommy Robinson/Rebel Media or ISIS (both of whom made excellent media content) - but we, we ourselves are NOT NICE. We live hard lives, of broken bones and angry confrontations - and that's just at work. If the subject of your propaganda cannot be turned into something of a hero - get a new subject.
 
Stop interviewing people about 'the queer economics of universal basic income' or whatever your 'nice' friend has just done a masters on, get your camera and follow a union worker around for a month, maybe someone at the start of their journey to the left rather than an expert.
 
Catch them crying on the night bus home asking how they'll make ends meet if they lose this job or don't get more shifts; catch her hugging her colleagues when they agree to join the union; catch them shouting at someone in the pub who slagged off the left; catch them living a normal, but heroic life.
You never know what might happen to your subject.
 
They might drop out after one feature; they might become a left wing talking-head, an anti-Tommy; they might becomea union organiser; they might even go a fight in an anti-fascist war, like Rojava.
Please, for fucks sake, stop talking about yourselves and don't drop the ball again like you did with the story of the YPG volunteers.
 
 
 
I'll say it again: this dickhead Tommy Robinson did two months in jail.
Eight of us died.
And you have already spent more time talking about him than us.

 
Alexander Norton of the Bob Crow Brigade
SW14
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 10:06:18 (permalink)
Whagwan
Yes.  ISIS are fascist and so is Wahhabism.  Hence why you have antifa and leftist volunteers going to join the YPG to fight them.  Note no right wingers or Tommy fans included in their number.

I do not believe you fight fascism with more fascism.
 
Do you disagree that making a list of a certain race and deporting them is fascist?


People of all political stripes went to join the YPG. Macer Gifford was one of the most famous who was a Tory city boy. I recognized the efforts of leftist volunteers who went to fight an horrific organization committing acts of mass rape and genocide rather than howling at people saying things deemed “mean” or “edgy” as most UK “anti fascists” seem to.

You acknowledge that Wahhabism/Salafism is fascism - around 6% of UK mosques are Salafist. Should they be able to operate in plain sight, largely unchallenged (almost never by anti-fascists) as part of “multi culturalism” of the kind that helped produce MEN bomber Salman Abedi?

Do you think if more centrist political elements challenged Islamism more robustly than the lamentably inept way that they have that it would negate the populist appeal of the likes of Tommy Robinson? Or does Tommy Robinson simply reflect exasperation at the kind of banal platitudes offered yet again, ad nauseum as they were yesterday?
Whagwan
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 10:10:23 (permalink)
Lol, make your mind up. 
 
Is he a your Trench Hero, silenced and downtrodden but a lion and the backbone of this country, or a populist reaction to inept centrist Government?
SW14
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 10:13:27 (permalink)


 
Alexander Norton of the Bob Crow Brigade


He sounds pretty exasperated that the likes of me gave far more credit to their brave struggle against genuine evil than most of the UK left who are largely oblivious to their existence.
SW14
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 10:15:16 (permalink)
Whagwan
Lol, make your mind up. 
 
Is he a your Trench Hero, silenced and downtrodden but a lion and the backbone of this country, or a populist reaction to inept centrist Government?


The two things aren’t mutually exclusive, you’re ascribing Steve Bannon quotes to me and you’ve answered a question with a question.
Whagwan
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 10:31:20 (permalink)
SW14
Whagwan
Lol, make your mind up. 
 
Is he a your Trench Hero, silenced and downtrodden but a lion and the backbone of this country, or a populist reaction to inept centrist Government?


The two things aren’t mutually exclusive, you’re ascribing Steve Bannon quotes to me and you’ve answered a question with a question.



Steve Bannon quote singular, you have said the rest and more.  And you have answered with a question ignoring my question in your previous two posts. 
 
But anyway, enough of this back and forth now I've got too much fucking work on to argue with you today. 
SW14
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 18:47:39 (permalink)
Sudanese “refugee” in London to pick up a visa for Sudan, the place he was fleeing from.

Nothing to see here. Sigh.
Stoopid_Fux
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 19:12:07 (permalink)
Lily Allen's fault probably 
Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 19:18:21 (permalink)
Whagwan
Fucking lol you retard. Cressida Dick got the job through being a safe useful idiot who can be relied on for cover ups and killing, not because she is a lesbian, and saying she has said there will be NO investigation is hardly an example of people being silenced.

Tommy Robinson was locked up for a crime in which he pleaded guilty and was freed on a procedural technicality. He still awaits retrial. I bet you believe any bollocks he puts out, 75% Muslim prison, housed
opposite the non-existent mosque, fake complaint slips that appear to never have been submitted. Gullible.
And he's hardly been silenced when he's been on TV repeatedly to spread his bile.

Out of the others, none have been silenced in any way. Some foreigners have been refused entry but you're a fan of that surely?

Lauren Southern was deported under section 7 of the terrorism act. Her parents were phoned when she was detained and they left a message saying 'don't worry we know she's not a terrorist'. These are over reaching laws designed to prevent people from discussing these legitimate issues.
 
And I'm sorry, no person could objectively look at Tommy's treatment by the state and conclude that he has not been victimised for his views. He's just a high profile case, plenty of other people have been given a 4am knock by the police for 'islamophobia' be they school kids to old ladies. All it takes is for this to happen a few times and most people get the message and just keep their heads down. Look at DNBADMAN, he has only recently mentioned his experiences after 2 years of this 'debate' going on, even then he felt compelled to heavily caveat his post. (I note that you didn't find his anecdotal evidence as conclusive as the Easyflow's, presumably because it doesn't suit your narrative so it's just easier just to make the same lame racism accusations rather than consider there could be an issue requiring a greater degree of thought?)
 
 
 
 
post edited by Goodone - 2018/08/15 19:22:56
darkmatter
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 19:21:12 (permalink)
The US and China have a lot to answer for re. problems with Sudan. Oil money more than governments, as per.

darkmatter
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 19:26:11 (permalink)
Goodone
Look at DNBADMAN, he has only recently mentioned his experiences after 2 years of this 'debate' going on, even then he felt compelled to heavily caveat his post.



DNBADMAN
I can 100% say they cause an integration problem. To the point where if I even look at their eyes it might cause rape or something. 

 
Terrible source and that is not a careful caveat, get a grip.
 
Surely it'd be better to make claims about things that aren't so easily quotable from just up the page so it's less obvious how wrong you are? 

SW14
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 19:33:28 (permalink)
Stoopid_Fux
Lily Allen's fault probably 


You do have to wonder how many times we will be stung before a safety first approach is taken.

Protect British citizens first. Cyclists shouldn’t be deliberately mowed down because we’ve granted some bum refugee status as he’s about to go back on holiday from the country he fled from.

Risk v reward is so far from worth it. Westminster will be pedestrianized now as a result.

We never learn. But refugees welcome and all that. Nowhere to be seen now of course.
post edited by SW14 - 2018/08/15 19:36:14
Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/15 19:35:55 (permalink)
darkmatter
Goodone
Look at DNBADMAN, he has only recently mentioned his experiences after 2 years of this 'debate' going on, even then he felt compelled to heavily caveat his post.



DNBADMAN
I can 100% say they cause an integration problem. To the point where if I even look at their eyes it might cause rape or something. 

 
Terrible source and that is not a careful caveat, get a grip.
 
Surely it'd be better to make claims about things that aren't so easily quotable from just up the page so it's less obvious how wrong you are? 


Come on man you're better than that 
SW14
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/16 07:44:14 (permalink)
darkmatter
The US and China have a lot to answer for re. problems with Sudan. Oil money more than governments, as per.




It certainly isn't some poor cunt cycling to work's fault and there is no reason to inflict these problems on them.
 
You might expect a bit of gratitude after being taken in from conflict in Darfur, not a terrorist attack. I'm sure a lot of these people are genuinely messed up by the conflict there which is understandable. I don't want Darfur brought to London I'm afraid.
 
The government clearly can't vet them to ensure safety of the British public because this must be the third or fourth attack this year alone from a "refugee". It's only ever Sunni Muslim refugees that seem to turn around and attack their new host country. Even though it's a tiny minority, even one attack is too many.
 
A government's first responsibility is to respect their own people, never mind their own Parliament and this is the third attack on THEM in the last year. Wake up because we would quite simply be a better country without this carry on.
 
This was clearly a braindead deadbeat who was too stupid to even seriously hurt someone but we won't always be so lucky. Time to be proactive and not reactive in tackling this ideology that has declared low level war on us.
_Modus_
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/16 12:37:16 (permalink)
SW14
Sudanese “refugee” in London to pick up a visa for Sudan, the place he was fleeing from.

Nothing to see here. Sigh.



If that's the case, the Home Office can legally revoke his status, so this is a bit of a non-issue. Also it's the Home Office's (or more likely the Immigration tribunal's) fault for granting him asylum, if he indeed had a false claim. 
 
 
Whagwan
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/16 15:34:18 (permalink)
Labour have made an official complaint to IPSO for misrepresentation over this wreath bollocks they've been pushing this week. 
 
https://www.theguardian.c...rage-of-cemetery-visit
SW14
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/16 16:05:34 (permalink)
DJModus
SW14
Sudanese “refugee” in London to pick up a visa for Sudan, the place he was fleeing from.

Nothing to see here. Sigh.



If that's the case, the Home Office can legally revoke his status, so this is a bit of a non-issue. Also it's the Home Office's (or more likely the Immigration tribunal's) fault for granting him asylum, if he indeed had a false claim. 
 
 


Well that’s great but doesn’t tackle him being here to begin with and attacking the Houses of Parliament trying to kill people.

Closing the stable door after the horse has veered into some cyclists in a motor screaming “Allah akhbar”. Great.
post edited by SW14 - 2018/08/16 16:08:15
Stoopid_Fux
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/16 16:07:26 (permalink)
The Corbyn wreath stuff is a load of nonsense but had to laugh/sigh at Owen Jones trying to claim the front page of The New European is "homophobic" because it depicts him crying lol.
 

 
 
SW14
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/16 16:19:17 (permalink)
Boyz don’t cry
Stoopid_Fux
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/16 17:39:40 (permalink)
Manchester mosque sermon 'called for armed jihad', say scholars
 
Semon at the mosque where the Manchester bomber worshipped called for the support
of armed jihadist fighters
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44729727
 
 
SW14
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/16 17:42:38 (permalink)
Oh, what a shock! That’s the place that I said we should bulldoze and got all kinds of grief for it.

Doze it. Good riddance to bad rubbish. We absolutely do not want or need that kind of shithouse in our society.
post edited by SW14 - 2018/08/16 18:04:35
DNBADMAN
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/16 17:52:01 (permalink)
Goodone
darkmatter
Goodone
Look at DNBADMAN, he has only recently mentioned his experiences after 2 years of this 'debate' going on, even then he felt compelled to heavily caveat his post.



DNBADMAN
I can 100% say they cause an integration problem. To the point where if I even look at their eyes it might cause rape or something. 

 
Terrible source and that is not a careful caveat, get a grip.
 
Surely it'd be better to make claims about things that aren't so easily quotable from just up the page so it's less obvious how wrong you are? 


Come on man you're better than that 


I agree my words were not careful. But there's seriously been points where I have wondered how or why the woman has chosen to fully cover. In discussion with people from the belief some have told me that some feel they need to (hence the rape comment, which just to clarify again is a bit silly and dumb) , where as I've heard others say they have chosen to wear the full garment. (I'm purposely not writing the name of it as I'll probably get that name wrong and look like an ignorant).

Was just posting my experience and general feeling of the situation as whilst I'm no Tommy type at all I still have serious concerns about the integration that I've witnessed and the integration that is even possible if the female living next door isn't even allowed to say hello to me. In the situations I still got on with peeps but I worry that this is adding to all the bullshit drama being caused by the defend England league.

Edit: I need to add, I've not read all the comments or clicked on all sources of debate in this thread but from a bit of an outsider point of view, it seems like a lot of people argue with SW14 for the sake of arguing. And no I can't be assed to quote where that thought came from it's just a generalised observation. Could be totally wrong. Peace etc 🤗🤣
post edited by DNBADMAN - 2018/08/16 18:12:28
Loam
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/16 18:23:27 (permalink)
Stoopid_Fux
The Corbyn wreath stuff is a load of nonsense but had to laugh/sigh at Owen Jones trying to claim the front page of The New European is "homophobic" because it depicts him crying lol.
 

 
 


Quote from the Patrick Stewart article

"The great actor duly spoke up for Jeremy Corbyn when he was elected leader and backed him at the last election, even if, in private, he was becoming, in common with a great many Labour members, frustrated and angry over his position on Brexit."

sick commas m8
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