AnsweredHot!Politics Thread

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Whagwan
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 21:06:27 (permalink)
I'm pretty sure that Goodone has argued that the old discredited differing IQs between races before. 
That's pretty racist.
LHC
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 21:06:56 (permalink)
I'm not sure Goodone is really alt-right. I doubt he has a problem with foreigners or blacks as long as they share his views. The issue is he has a view of "his culture" as supreme (which is where the cross-over with the alt-right exists). It is as if civilisation peaked in an era when he would have died penniless. Universal healthcare has increased our life expectancy and now he is the malignant tumour growing on the bowels of a liberal democracy.

Edit:
Whagwan
I'm pretty sure that Goodone has argued that the old discredited differing IQs between races before. 
That's pretty racist.

Oh yeah, forgot about that.
Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 21:23:12 (permalink)
It's not my culture... liberal democracy has made us the most advanced and free society in the world. It doesn't mean it can't be refined or improved, however we have to be able to say that there are objective moral standards which are superior to others. EG Putting women in bags and marrying kids is clearly morally reprehensible.... we shouldn't be afraid to call that out.
 
 
Stoopid_Fux
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 21:29:45 (permalink)
SW14
 
Odd imo. I think the same about some on the left haranguing ethnic minorities who vote Tory as Uncle Tom's/traitors as if they "own" their vote and are only allowed their agency if it's supporting the "right" side. 




This is admittedly a terrible trait of some on the left that do see quite often.  It is mainly just the wacky end of the left that think like that or least i like to think so.. but yeh this assumption that every minority should be somehow be automatically left leaning politically or somehow a socialist is real wrong headed and pretty retarded.
Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 21:31:20 (permalink)
Whagwan
I'm pretty sure that Goodone has argued that the old discredited differing IQs between races before. 
That's pretty racist.


There are statistical differences between different ethnic groups on average (eg the Danish are taller than chinese) and yes that does include IQ... That might pose a difficult question but I don't think we should ignore the facts no matter how uncomfortable they may make you feel. That's anti rational, will prevent progression and leave this topic in the hands of genuine fascists. 
 
Incidentally it's the Chinese that have on average the highest IQ, not that we'd realise it from your posts! However it supports the idea that we should treat people as individuals rather than prejudge them on their immutable characteristics (such as race and gender) which the left are so intent on doing
 
post edited by Goodone - 2018/08/09 21:59:46
Rudiger01
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 21:31:28 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Whagwan 2018/08/09 21:43:50
Minorities having a vote is the real disgrace here isnt it gud1?
Stoopid_Fux
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 21:32:01 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Whagwan 2018/08/09 21:43:55
 
GoodoneIt's not my culture... liberal democracy has made us the most advanced and free society in the world. It doesn't mean it can't be refined or improved, however we have to be able to say that there are objective moral standards which are superior to others. EG Putting women in bags and marrying kids is clearly morally reprehensible.... we shouldn't be afraid to call that out.
 

 
youve been at the Infowars again ?
 
 
RAYZA
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 21:32:12 (permalink)
Stoopid_Fux
SW14
 
Odd imo. I think the same about some on the left haranguing ethnic minorities who vote Tory as Uncle Tom's/traitors as if they "own" their vote and are only allowed their agency if it's supporting the "right" side. 




This is admittedly a terrible trait of some on the left that do see quite often.  It is mainly just the wacky end of the left that think like that or least i like to think so.. but yeh this assumption that every minority should be somehow be automatically left leaning politically or somehow a socialist is real wrong headed and pretty retarded.




It would be pretty dumb to be an immigrant and right wing though, wouldn't it.
Stoopid_Fux
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 21:35:19 (permalink)
Many ppl are quite right-winged when it comes to money , business and economics regardless of race or sexuality or where theyre from.
post edited by Stoopid_Fux - 2018/08/09 21:37:11
SW14
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 21:38:28 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Stoopid_Fux 2018/08/10 00:16:22
Razor
Stoopid_Fux
SW14
 
Odd imo. I think the same about some on the left haranguing ethnic minorities who vote Tory as Uncle Tom's/traitors as if they "own" their vote and are only allowed their agency if it's supporting the "right" side. 




This is admittedly a terrible trait of some on the left that do see quite often.  It is mainly just the wacky end of the left that think like that or least i like to think so.. but yeh this assumption that every minority should be somehow be automatically left leaning politically or somehow a socialist is real wrong headed and pretty retarded.




It would be pretty dumb to be an immigrant and right wing though, wouldn't it.


This is just an extension of you thinking it’s dumb to be right wing. They may keenly embrace private enterprise and feel that provides their best chance of moving up in the world. Look how many migrants run businesses, from corner shops through to conglomerates. Would they rather pay 19% corporation tax or 26%? Less regulation or more regulation? They may even want to pull up the drawbridge after them. I’ve heard anti-immigrant sentiments from first and second generation immigrants because they think the scale has become too great and often live in areas most affected by it.
 
Stuff like:
 
“Only Labour can be trusted to unlock the talent of Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic people.

 
 
from Corbyn could also come across as highly patronising and white saviour complex-y.
post edited by SW14 - 2018/08/09 21:57:54
LHC
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 21:59:03 (permalink)
Goodone
Whagwan
I'm pretty sure that Goodone has argued that the old discredited differing IQs between races before. 
That's pretty racist.


Oh look it's the other chuckle brother
 
there are statistical differences between different ethnic groups on average (eg the Danish are taller than chinese) and yes that does include IQ... That might pose a difficult question but I don't think we should ignore the facts no matter how uncomfortable they may make you feel. That's anti rational, will prevent progression and leave this topic in the hands of genuine fascists. 
 

You seem to have found one book/author whose methodology is questionable and whose findings are massively contradicted by other evidence, then chosen to accept that one controversial author because he supports your worldview. "I don't think we should ignore the facts no matter how uncomfortable they may make you feel. That's anti rational" - Rousseau 1770
Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 22:01:52 (permalink)
And what world view is that?
LHC
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 22:18:58 (permalink)
Well a racist one, if you continue to use a discredited book to support pre-existing beliefs that race determines IQ. Perhaps that isn't what has happened but it's what it looks like when you ignore the flaws of the work behind a veneer of "uncomfortable facts".

What sort of author publishes on intelligence and doesn't even study your brain anyway?
PapaJaro
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 22:22:26 (permalink)
I don't think the view is that race determines iq anymore than it determines height, I thought it was that average differences exist between races. Or am i getting it wrong?
Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 22:23:01 (permalink)
I'm not going to argue with you about the provenance of the data so let's just try a thought experiment (don't worry it won't hurt) - Do you accept there are differences between say Danish and Chinese? 
post edited by Goodone - 2018/08/09 22:29:41
Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 22:26:56 (permalink)
PapaJaro
I don't think the view is that race determines iq anymore than it determines height, I thought it was that average differences exist between races. Or am i getting it wrong?


I'd go along with that
LHC
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 22:57:14 (permalink)
Goodone
I'm not going to argue with you about the provenance of the data so let's just try a thought experiment (don't worry it won't hurt) - Do you accept there are differences between say Danish and Chinese? 

Assuming you are mean any differences at all then obviously yes. Many physical and physiological differences are well documented for example.

Irrelevant. We were talking specifically about IQ.
Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 22:58:38 (permalink)
Not irrelevant because those differences are caused by genetics, do you agree with that?
PapaJaro
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 23:07:30 (permalink)
If you grow up malnourished it may stunt your growth, leave you a little scrawny etc, but you don't keep getting taller the more you eat, do you? Or cleverer the more you read?
 
Does anybody believe iq is wholly environmental?
Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 23:11:38 (permalink)
I think LHC does but presumably he doesn't think that a chinese lady would give birth to a white danish person just because she moved to Denmark?
LHC
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 23:14:15 (permalink)
I don't believe IQ is wholly environmental and haven't suggested that. Just because something is affected by genetics doesn't mean it is affected by race. Genotype is rarely determined by race.
Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 23:18:49 (permalink)
Stay with me here... so we have accepted that the differences between Danes and Chinese are driven by genetics?
PapaJaro
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 23:31:00 (permalink)
LHC
I don't believe IQ is wholly environmental and haven't suggested that. Just because something is affected by genetics doesn't mean it is affected by race. Genotype is rarely determined by race.

So you believe in the heritability of iq to a certain extent. Do you believe in population groups in more or less proximal relationships with each other? Average differences existing between those groups would be a natural outcome of a combination of the two. 
 
The following is from Wikipedia, which is hardly known for being a bastion of racist thinking..
 
"The heritability of IQ for adults is between 58% and 77%[5] (with some more-recent estimates as high as 80%[6] and 86%.[7]) Genome-wide association studies have identified inherited genome sequence differences that account for 20% of the 50% of the genetic variation that contributes to heritability.[8] IQ goes from being weakly correlated with genetics, for children, to being strongly correlated with genetics for late teens and adults. The heritability of IQ increases with age and reaches an asymptote at 18–20 years of age and continues at that level well into adulthood. This phenomenon is known as the Wilson Effect.[9] Recent studies suggest that family and parenting characteristics are not significant contributors to variation in IQ scores;[10] however, poor prenatal environment, malnutrition and disease can have deleterious effects.[11][12]"
Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 23:33:28 (permalink)
Great you've ruined it 
 
Where' subby? Can I get a null nuke on Papajaro please
PapaJaro
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 23:37:13 (permalink)
He'll be back, don't worry.
Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 23:39:09 (permalink)

LHC
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 23:41:43 (permalink)
Goodone
Stay with me here... so we have accepted that the differences between Danes and Chinese are driven by genetics?


What the fuck are you talking about? Of course genetic differences are driven by genetics, whereas environmental differences are driven by environment. So, differences between the Chinese population and Danish population are both genetic and environmental. As you ignored in my earlier post, genotype is rarely determined by race and there is no evidence beyond your discredited book that race determines whichever genes influence IQ (that is to say, variation in intelligence propagates equally through all populations).

You would, ironically, have ruined the premise of that book and probably the very concept of the IQ. Never before has one man done so much in the name of making the whole world stupider.
Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 23:45:27 (permalink)
Genotype is rarely determined by race is meaningless lol that's why ignored it.
 
Ok so we've agreed that the differences between Chinese and Danish are genetic (not environmental because that would mean that a chinese baby would grow up danish if born in Denmark... he might speak the language and adopt the local culture but he would still look chinese and not Danish... agreed?
 
 
 
LHC
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 23:50:05 (permalink)
PapaJaro
LHC
I don't believe IQ is wholly environmental and haven't suggested that. Just because something is affected by genetics doesn't mean it is affected by race. Genotype is rarely determined by race.

So you believe in the heritability of iq to a certain extent. Do you believe in population groups in more or less proximal relationships with each other? Average differences existing between those groups would be a natural outcome of a combination of the two. 
 
The following is from Wikipedia, which is hardly known for being a bastion of racist thinking..
 
"The heritability of IQ for adults is between 58% and 77%[5] (with some more-recent estimates as high as 80%[6] and 86%.[7]) Genome-wide association studies have identified inherited genome sequence differences that account for 20% of the 50% of the genetic variation that contributes to heritability.[8] IQ goes from being weakly correlated with genetics, for children, to being strongly correlated with genetics for late teens and adults. The heritability of IQ increases with age and reaches an asymptote at 18–20 years of age and continues at that level well into adulthood. This phenomenon is known as the Wilson Effect.[9] Recent studies suggest that family and parenting characteristics are not significant contributors to variation in IQ scores;[10] however, poor prenatal environment, malnutrition and disease can have deleterious effects.[11][12]"


This doesn't disagree with what I have said. IQ is influenced by inherited factors but few inherited factors are influenced by race. There is no evidence that IQ is influenced by race. Therefore Goodone's stupid" thought experiment" is irrelevant.
Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/08/09 23:54:51 (permalink)
LHC
PapaJaro
LHC
I don't believe IQ is wholly environmental and haven't suggested that. Just because something is affected by genetics doesn't mean it is affected by race. Genotype is rarely determined by race.

So you believe in the heritability of iq to a certain extent. Do you believe in population groups in more or less proximal relationships with each other? Average differences existing between those groups would be a natural outcome of a combination of the two. 
 
The following is from Wikipedia, which is hardly known for being a bastion of racist thinking..
 
"The heritability of IQ for adults is between 58% and 77%[5] (with some more-recent estimates as high as 80%[6] and 86%.[7]) Genome-wide association studies have identified inherited genome sequence differences that account for 20% of the 50% of the genetic variation that contributes to heritability.[8] IQ goes from being weakly correlated with genetics, for children, to being strongly correlated with genetics for late teens and adults. The heritability of IQ increases with age and reaches an asymptote at 18–20 years of age and continues at that level well into adulthood. This phenomenon is known as the Wilson Effect.[9] Recent studies suggest that family and parenting characteristics are not significant contributors to variation in IQ scores;[10] however, poor prenatal environment, malnutrition and disease can have deleterious effects.[11][12]"


This doesn't disagree with what I have said. IQ is influenced by inherited factors but few inherited factors are influenced by race. There is no evidence that IQ is influenced by race. Therefore Goodone's stupid" thought experiment" is irrelevant.

Ay?? How do you think that Danes look Danish and Chinese look Chinese? Is it not because their respective parents passed on their genes (and their parents before that and so on) therefore their characteristics (including IQ as you concede) are hereditary? Or to use your terminology 'inherited'?
 
Goodones thought experiement stands
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