AnsweredHot!Politics Thread

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Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/03/14 16:07:45 (permalink)
sectionate
Goodone
Lol no that's your inference, I've called for debate remember.

Again classic leftist response conflating a desire to discuss how the integration of Islamism into uk may work with racism.

When you guys going to realise that only makes the situation worse and makes you look like the fascists you claim to at constant war with



How does integration = fascism? The two things are polar opposites. You really have no clue, other than the right wing tagline of 'blame it on the immigrants' and 'the left are dumb and fascists'
 
Whilst you have never stated directly, like most extreme right people, you infer it in every post you make. You hide behind a modicum of intelligence and weirdly worded statements assembled via thesaurus to try and not look like a racist right winger. What you really want to say is probably heinous and right down in the depths of the gutter that would fit in with 1930's Italy or Germany. But you don't, for fear of showing your true colours and being branded a racist.


lol If I was scared of being called a racist I would keep my head down and not make the case for free speech and enlightenment values.
 
I have to ask though, on what have you based this opinion? It seems like anyone who has a different opinion to you has to be a racist / 'twit' or nazi... Basing your beliefs on feelings over evidence is the actions of a brainwashed ideologue... no different to witch hunts in the middle ages.
 
(I'm talking abstractly here, not saying I'm beyond abuse or that you're a brainwashed ideologue btw)
 
 
post edited by Goodone - 2018/03/14 16:11:54
JUDGEDREDD
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 16:08:16 (permalink)
SW14
JUDGEDREDD
Had he came out an straight up 187'd Russia then everyone would be calling him a moron for jumping the proverbial, to try and shift some criticisms on him when facts aren't even figured is laughable. It's catch 22 always 


Our intelligence services have already called it and frankly I’m inclined to believe them.

There is one country and one country alone that has shown a repeated and increasingly brazen appetite for assassinating Russian dissidents in the UK - the Russian Federation.

 
I don't doubt it, however neither of us are leaders of political parties and we're fine to make these statements, politics is a game and the media run the circus, I imagine the papers would be damming Corbyn for sparking ww3 had he came out with a direct accusation. 
post edited by JUDGEDREDD - 2018/03/14 16:12:39
Postman Pat
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 16:17:36 (permalink)
That's why he should of kept it short. Nothing to gain for him today either way. He should of been able to see that.
JUDGEDREDD
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 16:38:43 (permalink)
Everything I've said is just about backing his decision to not out and out at Russia, he does (imo) the right thing there and it still gets spun lol, the May / Tories thing is another matter but a minor compared 
Stoopid_Fux
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 16:50:46 (permalink)
well you expect Tories to tear into Corbyn and portray him as a commie etc and certainly Corbyn does not help himself at times but does not help when have ppl like Yvette Cooper deliberately grandstanding (as she did during calls to bomb Syria) to deliberately undermine Corbyn as well. 
 
 
SmokedEggs
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 16:54:21 (permalink)
Stoopid_Fux
well you expect Tories to tear into Corbyn and portray him as a commie etc and certainly Corbyn does not help himself at times but does not help when have ppl like Yvette Cooper deliberately grandstanding (as she did during calls to bomb Syria) to deliberately undermine Corbyn as well. 
 
 


Cooper and co should just fuck off and join the Tories. She's supported every war going
RUSSELL CLARTY
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SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 17:28:29 (permalink)
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/farright-activists-refused-entry-to-the-uk/news-story/0d1614ae1f564a24d27a0c969085921e

A joke that these were detained under anti-terrorism legislation and banned from the country.

What “threat” are a couple of female youtubers in their early 20’s? Sellner as I understand it is head of a hard right but non-violent protest group.

Extremist imam doing a whistlestop mosque tour to talk about the correct Islamic way to stone or dismember? Come right in. Tour of duty with ISIS? Welcome home sir, do you need a council house as part of our deradicaliation programme?

“Je Suis Charlie” was a load of bollocks. Freedom of speech is being sacrificed across Europe to protect a religion for which it is a complete anathema.

We have learnt nothing.
post edited by SW14 - 2018/03/14 17:47:18
F L Y
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 17:43:01 (permalink)
SmokedEggs
Stoopid_Fux
well you expect Tories to tear into Corbyn and portray him as a commie etc and certainly Corbyn does not help himself at times but does not help when have ppl like Yvette Cooper deliberately grandstanding (as she did during calls to bomb Syria) to deliberately undermine Corbyn as well. 
 
 


Cooper and co should just fuck off and join the Tories. She's supported every war going

She is a Tory she's a Blairite , but Corbyn is useless as well we are doomed .
Goodone
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 17:45:49 (permalink)
SW14
Subsurface
Goodone
Postman Pat
Postman Pat
So what do you think should be done to "address the issue"?



Acknowledging the issue first
Then introduce proper controls over immigration
Integration plan to prevent aggregation of parallel communities

Pretty sure this has all been said before



Shut up you fucking twit.


Seems like a reasonable suggestion to me.


You virtue signalling there, pal ?
Original Nuttah
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 18:07:01 (permalink)
Lrrr
She's really taught him a lesson by not going to the WC.


She's really Putin the boot in.
darkmatter
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 18:16:23 (permalink)
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/06/the-male-glance-how-we-fail-to-take-womens-stories-seriously

The TLDR: Two TV shows were written. One was about men. One about women. People liked the one with men in more, so this proves society doesn't care about women. The fact they were different shows is obviously not relevant at all.

FUCK. OFF.

SmokedEggs
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 18:54:09 (permalink)
darkmatter
https://www.theguardian.c...mens-stories-seriously

The TLDR: Two TV shows were written. One was about men. One about women. People liked the one with men in more, so this proves society doesn't care about women. The fact they were different shows is obviously not relevant at all.

FUCK. OFF.


They're just trolling, I think. Insane warped feminism seems to be the guardian's clickbait
Bertie Bassett
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 18:57:06 (permalink)
F L Y
Corbyn is not a leader , he is a protest politician , when dealing with strong leaders like Putin who think fair play is a form of weakness you need to be as ruthless as he is .




 
Yeah Corbyn should just whip his shirt off, get on his horse and start ordering the execution of people he doesn't like willy nilly. That'll show 'em
 
Postman Pat
I'm a Corbyn fan, but he's got it all sorts of wrong on this. He's handed loads of ammunition to his enemies, watch the tabloids go in hard on the front pages tomorrow.
 
Would of been much better off keeping it short and sweet and not giving too much away. 

 
I'm minded to think Corbyn doesn't care too much about what the tabloids might say, given that he's attacked in them most days. I'm sure he'll sleep tonight.
post edited by user21 - 2018/03/14 18:58:49
SmokedEggs
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 19:35:14 (permalink)
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/the-novichok-story-is-indeed-another-iraqi-wmd-scam

As recently as 2016 Dr Robin Black, Head of the Detection Laboratory at the UK’s only chemical weapons facility at Porton Down, a former colleague of Dr David Kelly, published in an extremely prestigious scientific journal that the evidence for the existence of Novichoks was scant and their composition unknown.

In recent years, there has been much speculation that a fourth generation of nerve agents, ‘Novichoks’ (newcomer), was developed in Russia, beginning in the 1970s as part of the ‘Foliant’ programme, with the aim of finding agents that would compromise defensive countermeasures. Information on these compounds has been sparse in the public domain, mostly originating from a dissident Russian military chemist, Vil Mirzayanov. No independent confirmation of the structures or the properties of such compounds has been published. (Black, 2016)

Robin Black. (2016) Development, Historical Use and Properties of Chemical Warfare Agents. Royal Society of Chemistry

Yet now, the British Government is claiming to be able instantly to identify a substance which its only biological weapons research centre has never seen before and was unsure of its existence. Worse, it claims to be able not only to identify it, but to pinpoint its origin. Given Dr Black’s publication, it is plain that claim cannot be true.

The world’s international chemical weapons experts share Dr Black’s opinion. The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) is a UN body based in the Hague. In 2013 this was the report of its Scientific Advisory Board, which included US, French, German and Russian government representatives and on which Dr Black was the UK representative:

[The SAB] emphasised that the definition of toxic chemicals in the Convention would cover all potential candidate chemicals that might be utilised as chemical weapons. Regarding new toxic chemicals not listed in the Annex on Chemicals but which may nevertheless pose a risk to the Convention, the SAB makes reference to “Novichoks”. The name “Novichok” is used in a publication of a former Soviet scientist who reported investigating a new class of nerve agents suitable for use as binary chemical weapons. The SAB states that it has insufficient information to comment on the existence or properties of “Novichoks”. (OPCW, 2013)

OPCW: Report of the Scientific Advisory Board on developments in science and technology for the Third Review Conference 27 March 2013

Indeed the OPCW was so sceptical of the viability of “novichoks” that it decided – with US and UK agreement – not to add them nor their alleged precursors to its banned list. In short, the scientific community broadly accepts Mirzayanov was working on “novichoks” but doubts he succeeded.

Given that the OPCW has taken the view the evidence for the existence of “Novichoks” is dubious, if the UK actually has a sample of one it is extremely important the UK presents that sample to the OPCW. Indeed the UK has a binding treaty obligation to present that sample to OPCW. Russa has – unreported by the corporate media – entered a demand at the OPCW that Britain submit a sample of the Salisbury material for international analysis.

Yet Britain refuses to submit it to the OPCW.

Why?

A second part of May’s accusation is that “Novichoks” could only be made in certain military installations. But that is also demonstrably untrue. If they exist at all, Novichoks were allegedly designed to be able to be made at bench level in any commercial chemical facility – that was a major point of them. The only real evidence for the existence of Novichoks was the testimony of the ex-Soviet scientist Mizayanov. And this is what Mirzayanov actually wrote.

One should be mindful that the chemical components or precursors of A-232 or its binary version novichok-5 are ordinary organophosphates that can be made at commercial chemical companies that manufacture such products as fertilizers and pesticides.

Vil S. Mirzayanov, “Dismantling the Soviet/Russian Chemical Weapons Complex: An Insider’s View,” in Amy E. Smithson, Dr. Vil S. Mirzayanov, Gen Roland Lajoie, and Michael Krepon, Chemical Weapons Disarmament in Russia: Problems and Prospects, Stimson Report No. 17, October 1995, p. 21.

It is a scientific impossibility for Porton Down to have been able to test for novichoks, without possessing some to develop the tests. As Dr Black has revealed Porton Down had never seen any Russian novichok, they cannot have a test for it unless they synthesised some themselves to develop the tests. And if they can synthesise it, so can many others, not just the Russians.

And finally – Mirzayanov is an Uzbek name and the novichok programme, assuming it existed, was in the Soviet Union but far away from modern Russia, at Nukus in modern Uzbekistan. I have visited the Nukus chemical weapons site myself. It was dismantled and made safe and all the stocks destroyed and the equipment removed by the American government, as I recall finishing while I was Ambassador there. There has in fact never been any evidence that any “novichok” ever existed in Russia itself.

To summarise:

1) Porton Down has acknowledged in publications it has never seen any Russian “novichoks”. The UK government has absolutely no “fingerprint” information that can safely attribute this substance to Russia.
2) Until now, neither Porton Down nor the world’s experts at the Organisation for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) were convinced “Novichoks” even exist.
3) The UK is refusing to provide a sample to the OPCW.
4) “Novichoks” were specifically designed to be able to be manufactured from common ingredients on any scientific bench. The Americans dismantled and studied the facility that allegedly developed them. It is completely untrue only the Russians could make them, if anybody can.
5) The “Novichok” programme was in Uzbekistan not in Russia. Its legacy was inherited by the Americans during their alliance with Karimov, not by the Russians.

With a great many thanks to sources who cannot be named at this moment.
post edited by SmokedEggs - 2018/03/14 19:36:20
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 20:22:30 (permalink)
From Foreign Policy oracle the Canary citing unnamed “great” sources 🙄😂

Where was the source for the first “Mossad did it” tin foil hat nonsense? Any danger of posting links rather than reams of pasted drivel? That way we can see the “nu left” are trying to do FP scoops and scroll down the page.

Meanwhile Nikki Haley not mincing her words at the UN:

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/974015270489485312
post edited by SW14 - 2018/03/14 20:56:37
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 21:11:49 (permalink)
Craig Murray isn't the canary m8
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 21:21:02 (permalink)
https://www.thecanary.co/global/world-analysis/2018/03/14/ex-uk-ambassador-makes-observation-unravels-russian-spy-story/

Here m8. The ex UK ambassador to Uzbekistan. Heavyweight.
post edited by SW14 - 2018/03/14 21:25:02
RAYZA
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/15 01:17:06 (permalink)
J Corbz statement...

The attack in Salisbury was an appalling act of violence, which we condemn in the strongest terms.

Nerve agents are abominable if used in war. It is utterly reckless for them to be used in a civilian environment.

The Prime Minister said on Monday and again today that Russia was either directly responsible or it was culpable because it lost control of this nerve agent.

The Russian authorities must be held to account on the basis of the evidence and our response must be both decisive and proportionate.

The attack in Britain has concerned our allies in the European Union, Nato and in the United Nations, and their words of solidarity have strengthened our position diplomatically.

We have a duty to speak out against the abuse of human rights by Putin’s Government and its support, both at home and abroad, and pay tribute to the many campaigners in Russia for human rights. And we must do more to address the dangers posed by the Russian state’s relationship with unofficial mafia-like groups and corrupt oligarchs.

We need to expose the flows of ill-gotten cash between the Russian state and billionaires who became stupendously rich by looting their country and subsequently using London to protect their wealth. We welcome the Prime Minister’s clear commitment today to support the Magnitsky amendments to sanction human rights abusers, as we have long been calling for.

Britain should build an international consensus to strengthen the chemical weapons convention, and ensure that such a horrific attack never happens again.
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/15 01:57:07 (permalink)
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/17/banned-pakistani-cleric-syed-qadri-preaching-in-britain

Islamic cleric so extreme he was banned from preaching in Pakistan welcomed in with no problem.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/right-wing-canadian-activist-lauren-southern-detained-at-calais-and-barred-from-entering-uk-a3787886.html%3famp

22 year old right wing female Canadian YouTuber Laura Southern detained under the terrorism act and banned from Britain forever. This country has lost it’s mind.

I don’t agree with a lot of her stuff (particularly the god ‘n guns bit) but to detain her under terror legislation is a gross abuse of power and banning her for “wrongthink” is Orwellian.
post edited by SW14 - 2018/03/15 02:15:40
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/15 08:03:15 (permalink)
SW14
https://www.thecanary.co/global/world-analysis/2018/03/14/ex-uk-ambassador-makes-observation-unravels-russian-spy-story/

Here m8. The ex UK ambassador to Uzbekistan. Heavyweight.

 
Being linked by a source doesn't make you that source.  But rather than setting up a strawman and slating it why don't you tell us what you disagree with in his supposition?
SmokedEggs
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/15 08:45:03 (permalink)
SW14
From Foreign Policy oracle the Canary citing unnamed “great” sources 🙄😂

Where was the source for the first “Mossad did it” tin foil hat nonsense? Any danger of posting links rather than reams of pasted drivel? That way we can see the “nu left” are trying to do FP scoops and scroll down the page.

Meanwhile Nikki Haley not mincing her words at the UN:

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/974015270489485312



No, from the former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan, posted on his own blog.  He makes numerous citations in the article, did you even read it?   
 
What part of his article do you actually take issue with anyway?  Or are you just attacking the man rather than the argument?  And then you cite shit-for-brains Nikki Haley?? lol
Handsome B Wonderful
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/15 08:58:42 (permalink)
SW14
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/17/banned-pakistani-cleric-syed-qadri-preaching-in-britain

Islamic cleric so extreme he was banned from preaching in Pakistan welcomed in with no problem.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/right-wing-canadian-activist-lauren-southern-detained-at-calais-and-barred-from-entering-uk-a3787886.html%3famp

22 year old right wing female Canadian YouTuber Laura Southern detained under the terrorism act and banned from Britain forever. This country has lost it’s mind.

I don’t agree with a lot of her stuff (particularly the god ‘n guns bit) but to detain her under terror legislation is a gross abuse of power and banning her for “wrongthink” is Orwellian.



Do you know why she was detained? The far right narrative that t_d seem desperate to plug seems to be it was because of some offensive leaflets but I've seen no evidence of that.
 
It seems her links to extremists, ie Tommy Robinson, are more likely the case but it hasn't been disclosed
post edited by Shiverman - 2018/03/15 09:01:35
wiseacre
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/15 09:00:23 (permalink)
What really matters is what corbyn would do in a hypothetical alternate reality.

no
GSV
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/15 09:00:36 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby S8 2018/03/15 10:35:03
Postman Pat
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/15 09:16:51 (permalink)
Razor
J Corbz statement...

The attack in Salisbury was an appalling act of violence, which we condemn in the strongest terms.

Nerve agents are abominable if used in war. It is utterly reckless for them to be used in a civilian environment.

The Prime Minister said on Monday and again today that Russia was either directly responsible or it was culpable because it lost control of this nerve agent.

The Russian authorities must be held to account on the basis of the evidence and our response must be both decisive and proportionate.

The attack in Britain has concerned our allies in the European Union, Nato and in the United Nations, and their words of solidarity have strengthened our position diplomatically.

We have a duty to speak out against the abuse of human rights by Putin’s Government and its support, both at home and abroad, and pay tribute to the many campaigners in Russia for human rights. And we must do more to address the dangers posed by the Russian state’s relationship with unofficial mafia-like groups and corrupt oligarchs.

We need to expose the flows of ill-gotten cash between the Russian state and billionaires who became stupendously rich by looting their country and subsequently using London to protect their wealth. We welcome the Prime Minister’s clear commitment today to support the Magnitsky amendments to sanction human rights abusers, as we have long been calling for.

Britain should build an international consensus to strengthen the chemical weapons convention, and ensure that such a horrific attack never happens again.


Yeah to be fair reading it back that’s a very sensible statement really. Not full of bluster like much of what was said in Parliament yesterday.
Mulla
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/15 10:47:27 (permalink)
Razor
J Corbz statement...

The attack in Salisbury was an appalling act of violence, which we condemn in the strongest terms.

Nerve agents are abominable if used in war. It is utterly reckless for them to be used in a civilian environment.

The Prime Minister said on Monday and again today that Russia was either directly responsible or it was culpable because it lost control of this nerve agent.

The Russian authorities must be held to account on the basis of the evidence and our response must be both decisive and proportionate.

The attack in Britain has concerned our allies in the European Union, Nato and in the United Nations, and their words of solidarity have strengthened our position diplomatically.

We have a duty to speak out against the abuse of human rights by Putin’s Government and its support, both at home and abroad, and pay tribute to the many campaigners in Russia for human rights. And we must do more to address the dangers posed by the Russian state’s relationship with unofficial mafia-like groups and corrupt oligarchs.

We need to expose the flows of ill-gotten cash between the Russian state and billionaires who became stupendously rich by looting their country and subsequently using London to protect their wealth. We welcome the Prime Minister’s clear commitment today to support the Magnitsky amendments to sanction human rights abusers, as we have long been calling for.

Britain should build an international consensus to strengthen the chemical weapons convention, and ensure that such a horrific attack never happens again.



Seems pretty reasonable imo. Is this the statement everyone was talking about on the previous page?
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/15 12:17:25 (permalink)
Whagwan
SW14
https://www.thecanary.co/global/world-analysis/2018/03/14/ex-uk-ambassador-makes-observation-unravels-russian-spy-story/

Here m8. The ex UK ambassador to Uzbekistan. Heavyweight.

 
Being linked by a source doesn't make you that source.  But rather than setting up a strawman and slating it why don't you tell us what you disagree with in his supposition?


I’ll leave that to an expert who actually knows what he is talking about to eviscerate his supposition:

https://twitter.com/deadlyvices/status/974033609639321600

Very amusing. “But...but...right wing!” “I’m a Labour voter of 30 years you fucking idiot”.

Well in Craig Murray.
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/15 12:18:54 (permalink)
Mulla
Razor
J Corbz statement...

The attack in Salisbury was an appalling act of violence, which we condemn in the strongest terms.

Nerve agents are abominable if used in war. It is utterly reckless for them to be used in a civilian environment.

The Prime Minister said on Monday and again today that Russia was either directly responsible or it was culpable because it lost control of this nerve agent.

The Russian authorities must be held to account on the basis of the evidence and our response must be both decisive and proportionate.

The attack in Britain has concerned our allies in the European Union, Nato and in the United Nations, and their words of solidarity have strengthened our position diplomatically.

We have a duty to speak out against the abuse of human rights by Putin’s Government and its support, both at home and abroad, and pay tribute to the many campaigners in Russia for human rights. And we must do more to address the dangers posed by the Russian state’s relationship with unofficial mafia-like groups and corrupt oligarchs.

We need to expose the flows of ill-gotten cash between the Russian state and billionaires who became stupendously rich by looting their country and subsequently using London to protect their wealth. We welcome the Prime Minister’s clear commitment today to support the Magnitsky amendments to sanction human rights abusers, as we have long been calling for.

Britain should build an international consensus to strengthen the chemical weapons convention, and ensure that such a horrific attack never happens again.



Seems pretty reasonable imo. Is this the statement everyone was talking about on the previous page?


No, this is the statement he put out hours later (after Seamus Milne’s nonsense statement) to try and quell the criticism he was getting for his performance at PMQ’s.
darkmatter
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/15 12:23:24 (permalink)

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