AnsweredHot!Politics Thread

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Goodone
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 08:08:44 (permalink)
http://bfy.tw/H6E7

That BBC link seems to be based on the 'beliefs' of 1 copper. Hardly journalistic integrity ensuring they are reporting the truth... seems more like an attempt at changing the nartative to me...Iets wait for the results of the official enquiry

Good job outing yourself as torygraph reader on this board though 😅
Postman Pat
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 08:23:47 (permalink)
I read the telegraph and the guardian to try and pick out a balanced view. More often than not they both piss me off.

Fair enough I missed that story on the telegraph, but it wasn’t given prominence and it certainly wasn’t anywhere to be found on thier home page or UK news page yesterday.

The beliefs of that copper seem to be based on the actual evidence of what actually happened. Don’t let that get in the way of your beliefs though eh.
darkmatter
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 08:32:55 (permalink)
It must be quite weird to spend your life shaking your fist in rage at an evil that you've literally conjured up in your mind.

Goodone
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 09:09:00 (permalink)
Postman Pat


The beliefs of that copper seem to be based on the actual evidence of what actually happened. Don’t let that get in the way of your beliefs though eh.


Given the police have sat on this for decades I would place more trust in an independent report. I'm not saying tabloids won't sensationalise news which us why I expect more from our state sponsored media!

We seem to be forgetting this is not the first instance of this occurring... Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford now Telford. This is nothing new yet it seems we never learn... a call for a debate is the way we deal with issues in a free country... trying to bury these issues and pretend they aren't there whilst shouting down those who want to address the issue of wholesale rape of kids happening across our towns and cities is totalitarianism
SmokedEggs
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/03/14 10:43:58 (permalink)
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/russian-to-judgement/

The same people who assured you that Saddam Hussein had WMD’s now assure you Russian “novochok” nerve agents are being wielded by Vladimir Putin to attack people on British soil. As with the Iraqi WMD dossier, it is essential to comb the evidence very finely. A vital missing word from Theresa May’s statement yesterday was “only”. She did not state that the nerve agent used was manufactured ONLY by Russia. She rather stated this group of nerve agents had been “developed by” Russia. Antibiotics were first developed by a Scotsman, but that is not evidence that all antibiotics are today administered by Scots.
 
The “novochok” group of nerve agents – a very loose term simply for a collection of new nerve agents the Soviet Union were developing fifty years ago – will almost certainly have been analysed and reproduced by Porton Down. That is entirely what Porton Down is there for. It used to make chemical and biological weapons as weapons, and today it still does make them in small quantities in order to research defences and antidotes. After the fall of the Soviet Union Russian chemists made a lot of information available on these nerve agents. And one country which has always manufactured very similar persistent nerve agents is Israel. This Foreign Policy magazine (a very establishment US publication) article on Israel‘s chemical and biological weapon capability is very interesting indeed. I will return to Israel later in this article.
 
Incidentally, novachok is not a specific substance but a class of new nerve agents. Sources agree they were designed to be persistent, and of an order of magnitude stronger than sarin or VX. That is rather hard to square with the fact that thankfully nobody has died and those possibly in contact just have to wash their clothes.
 
From Putin’s point of view, to assassinate Skripal now seems to have very little motivation. If the Russians have waited eight years to do this, they could have waited until after their World Cup. The Russians have never killed a swapped spy before. Just as diplomats, British and otherwise, are the most ardent upholders of the principle of diplomatic immunity, so security service personnel everywhere are the least likely to wish to destroy a system which can be a key aspect of their own personal security; quite literally spy swaps are their “Get Out of Jail Free” card. You don’t undermine that system – probably terminally – without very good reason.
 
It is worth noting that the “wicked” Russians gave Skripal a far lighter jail sentence than an American equivalent would have received. If a member of US Military Intelligence had sold, for cash to the Russians, the names of hundreds of US agents and officers operating abroad, the Americans would at the very least jail the person for life, and I strongly suspect would execute them. Skripal just received a jail sentence of 18 years, which is hard to square with the narrative of implacable vindictiveness against him. If the Russians had wanted to make an example, that was the time.
It is much more probable that the reason for this assassination attempt refers to something recent or current, than to spying twenty years ago. Were I the British police, I would inquire very closely into Orbis Intelligence.
 
There is no doubt that Skripal was feeding secrets to MI6 at the time that Christopher Steele was an MI6 officer in Moscow, and at the the time that Pablo Miller, another member of Orbis Intelligence, was also an MI6 officer in Russia and directly recruiting agents. It is widely reported on the web and in US media that it was Miller who first recruited Skripal. My own ex-MI6 sources tell me that is not quite true as Skripal was “walk-in”, but that Miller certainly was involved in running Skripal for a while. Sadly Pablo Miller’s LinkedIn profile has recently been deleted, but it is again widely alleged on the web that it showed him as a consultant for Orbis Intelligence and a consultant to the FCO and – wait for it – with an address in Salisbury. If anyone can recover that Linkedin entry do get in touch, though British Government agencies will have been active in the internet scrubbing.
 
It was of course Christopher Steele and Orbis Intelligence who produced for the Clinton camp the sensationalist dossier on Trump links with Russia – including the story of Trump paying to be urinated on by Russian prostitutes – that is a key part of the “Russiagate” affair gripping the US political classes. The extraordinary thing about this is that the Orbis dossier is obvious nonsense which anybody with a professional background can completely demolish, as I did here. Steele’s motive was, like Skripal’s in selling his secrets, cash pure and simple. Steele is a charlatan who knocked up a series of allegations that are either wildly improbable, or would need a high level source access he could not possibly get in today’s Russia, or both. He told the Democrats what they wish to hear and his audience – who had and still have no motivation to look at it critically – paid him highly for it.
 
I do not know for certain that Pablo Miller helped knock together the Steele dossier on Trump, but it seems very probable given he also served for MI6 in Russia and was working for Orbis. And it seems to me even more probable that Sergei Skripal contributed to the Orbis Intelligence dossier on Trump. Steele and Miller cannot go into Russia and run sources any more, and never would have had access as good as their dossier claims, even in their MI6 days. The dossier was knocked up for huge wodges of cash from whatever they could cobble together. Who better to lend a little corroborative verisimilitude in these circumstances than their old source Skripal?
 
Skripal was at hand in the UK, and allegedly even close to Miller in Salisbury. He could add in the proper acronym for a Russian committee here or the name of a Russian official there, to make it seem like Steele was providing hard intelligence. Indeed, Skripal’s outdated knowledge might explain some of the dossier’s more glaring errors.
But the problem with double agents like Skripal, who give intelligence for money, is that they can easily become triple agents and you never know when a better offer is going to come along. When Steele produced his dodgy dossier, he had no idea it would ever become so prominent and subject to so much scrutiny. Steele is fortunate in that the US Establishment is strongly motivated not to scrutinise his work closely as their one aim is to “get” Trump. But with the stakes very high, having a very loose cannon as one of the dossier’s authors might be most inconvenient both for Orbis and for the Clinton camp.
 
If I was the police, I would look closely at Orbis Intelligence.
 
To return to Israel. Israel has the nerve agents. Israel has Mossad which is extremely skilled at foreign assassinations. Theresa May claimed Russian propensity to assassinate abroad as a specific reason to believe Russia did it. Well Mossad has an even greater propensity to assassinate abroad. And while I am struggling to see a Russian motive for damaging its own international reputation so grieviously, Israel has a clear motivation for damaging the Russian reputation so grieviously. Russian action in Syria has undermined the Israeli position in Syria and Lebanon in a fundamental way, and Israel has every motive for damaging Russia’s international position by an attack aiming to leave the blame on Russia.
Both the Orbis and Israeli theories are speculations. But they are no more a speculation, and no more a conspiracy theory, than the idea that Vladimir Putin secretly sent agents to Salisbury to attack Skripal with a secret nerve agent. I can see absolutely no reason to believe that is a more valid speculation than the others at this point.
 
I am alarmed by the security, spying and armaments industries’ frenetic efforts to stoke Russophobia and heat up the new cold war. I am especially alarmed at the stream of cold war warrior “experts” dominating the news cycles. I write as someone who believes that agents of the Russian state did assassinate Litvinenko, and that the Russian security services carried out at least some of the apartment bombings that provided the pretext for the brutal assault on Chechnya. I believe the Russian occupation of Crimea and parts of Georgia is illegal. On the other hand, in Syria Russia has saved the Middle East from domination by a new wave of US and Saudi sponsored extreme jihadists.
 
The naive view of the world as “goodies” and “baddies”, with our own ruling class as the good guys, is for the birds. I witnessed personally in Uzbekistan the willingness of the UK and US security services to accept and validate intelligence they knew to be false in order to pursue their policy objectives. We should be extremely sceptical of their current anti-Russian narrative. There are many possible suspects in this attack.
 

SW14
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/03/14 10:57:50 (permalink)
What a load of utter bollocks.

Stoking Russophobia? 😂

This is a country that will crack out deadly radiation in London and then stick the two chief suspects in Parliament so they have lifetime immunity.

This is a country that will straight up deny that their BUK missile shot down a commercial airliner in spite overwhelming evidence.

This has happened for a number of years on numerous occasions.

“Traitors will kick the bucket, trust me,” Putin said. “Those folks betrayed their friends, their brothers in arms. Whatever they got in exchange for it, those 30 pieces of silver they were given, they will choke on them.”
Postman Pat
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 11:05:51 (permalink)
Goodone
Postman Pat


The beliefs of that copper seem to be based on the actual evidence of what actually happened. Don’t let that get in the way of your beliefs though eh.


Given the police have sat on this for decades I would place more trust in an independent report. I'm not saying tabloids won't sensationalise news which us why I expect more from our state sponsored media!

 
Exactly, which is why our publicly owned media took the time to get the story right.  News media sensationalising a story is a problem because people cling on to the sensationalised version no matter what facts are reported afterward. 
 

We seem to be forgetting this is not the first instance of this occurring... Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford now Telford. This is nothing new yet it seems we never learn... a call for a debate is the way we deal with issues in a free country... trying to bury these issues and pretend they aren't there whilst shouting down those who want to address the issue of wholesale rape of kids happening across our towns and cities is totalitarianism



No one is trying to dispute that nor is anyone forgetting anything. But at the same time it's important not to sensationalise the reporting as that only serves to fuel the fire of those who really really want to believe that all asian men are dirty rapists. Getting the facts straight is very important.
 
So what do you think should be done to "address the issue"?
Handsome B Wonderful
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/03/14 11:06:57 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mulla 2018/03/14 11:23:23
I'd still rather have some actual evidence presented before we start a war with a nuclear power 
SmokedEggs
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/03/14 11:08:26 (permalink)
SW14
What a load of utter bollocks.

Stoking Russophobia? 😂

This is a country that will crack out deadly radiation in London and then stick the two chief suspects in Parliament so they have lifetime immunity.

This is a country that will straight up deny that their BUK missile shot down a commercial airliner in spite overwhelming evidence.

This has happened for a number of years on numerous occasions.

“Traitors will kick the bucket, trust me,” Putin said. “Those folks betrayed their friends, their brothers in arms. Whatever they got in exchange for it, those 30 pieces of silver they were given, they will choke on them.”

 
So what about the point that Russia has never killed a spy involved in a spy swap before?  Is that bollocks as well?  Is that not significant?
 
I'm not convinced by the Russian motive here.  It's not that I don't think the Russians are ruthless enough to do it, there can be no doubt of that, it's what they would gain from it.
 
The only Russian motive I can see is that they want to test the response of the UK and the relationship with the US.  
 
As stated before I think there are possibly other parties with a greater motive for this than Russia. You might not have noticed but we are essentially on the verge of a full blown world war in the middle east now.  The war in Syria is a hugely regional conflict but also a proxy war between the US and Russia.  There are so many varied factions involved in the war, and there is a seemingly relentless push from many in the US and elsewhere to attack Iran.  This shit could escalate to the point of crisis very quickly - especially with your mate Erdogan's behaviour in Turkey.
 
Whenever the media 24/7 tell us that a specific country is to blame for something with next to no dissent, I get suspicious as if we are being railroaded into something.  We should always stop and ask questions before heading blindly into war.  I wouldn't trust this shower of shit of a government with anything, let alone something this important.
 
 
post edited by SmokedEggs - 2018/03/14 11:17:23
SmokedEggs
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 11:11:40 (permalink)
Postman Pat
Goodone
Postman Pat


The beliefs of that copper seem to be based on the actual evidence of what actually happened. Don’t let that get in the way of your beliefs though eh.


Given the police have sat on this for decades I would place more trust in an independent report. I'm not saying tabloids won't sensationalise news which us why I expect more from our state sponsored media!

 
Exactly, which is why our publicly owned media took the time to get the story right.  News media sensationalising a story is a problem because people cling on to the sensationalised version no matter what facts are reported afterward. 
 

We seem to be forgetting this is not the first instance of this occurring... Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford now Telford. This is nothing new yet it seems we never learn... a call for a debate is the way we deal with issues in a free country... trying to bury these issues and pretend they aren't there whilst shouting down those who want to address the issue of wholesale rape of kids happening across our towns and cities is totalitarianism



No one is trying to dispute that nor is anyone forgetting anything. But at the same time it's important not to sensationalise the reporting as that only serves to fuel the fire of those who really really want to believe that all asian men are dirty rapists. Getting the facts straight is very important.
 
So what do you think should be done to "address the issue"?




we've already established that when he uses vague phrases like that and is unable to substantiate them he is essentially inferring "kill the pakis" 
SW14
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/03/14 11:24:58 (permalink)
SmokedEggs
SW14
What a load of utter bollocks.

Stoking Russophobia? 😂

This is a country that will crack out deadly radiation in London and then stick the two chief suspects in Parliament so they have lifetime immunity.

This is a country that will straight up deny that their BUK missile shot down a commercial airliner in spite overwhelming evidence.

This has happened for a number of years on numerous occasions.

“Traitors will kick the bucket, trust me,” Putin said. “Those folks betrayed their friends, their brothers in arms. Whatever they got in exchange for it, those 30 pieces of silver they were given, they will choke on them.”

 
So what about the point that Russia has never killed a spy involved in a spy swap before?  Is that bollocks as well?  Is that not significant?
 
I'm not convinced by the Russian motive here. 
 
The only Russian motive I can see is that they want to test the response of the UK and the relationship with the US.  
 

 


Riiiight. Did you miss the string of Russian dissidents assassinated in this country over the last decade or so?

As for motive - it’s the same motive as all the others. Once again:


“Traitors will kick the bucket, trust me,” Putin said. “Those folks betrayed their friends, their brothers in arms. Whatever they got in exchange for it, those 30 pieces of silver they were given, they will choke on them.”


Who cares if it’s near an election? There is a media blackout of this story in Russia - hardly a fucking nailbiter is it?

We aren’t being “railroaded” into anything with Russia. This country only started making serious noises (but only noises) after Litvinenko.

The spy swap detail is only significant as it marks yet another unprecedented escalation from the KGB thug running/bleeding dry the country.
post edited by SW14 - 2018/03/14 11:34:51
Postman Pat
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/03/14 11:27:07 (permalink)
SmokedEggs
 
The only Russian motive I can see is that they want to test the response of the UK and the relationship with the US.  



Add Brexit into the mix too, are we potentially in the weakest position we've been in for hundreds of years?
 
Part of me wonders is Putin is bit of a macabre prankster, sat in the the Kremlin right now chortling at how he's made the self important Brits go apeshit. 
Goodone
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/03/14 11:29:23 (permalink)
Lol no that's your inference, I've called for debate remember.

Again classic leftist response conflating a desire to discuss how the integration of Islamism into uk may work with racism.

When you guys going to realise that only makes the situation worse and makes you look like the fascists you claim to at constant war with
Postman Pat
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 11:32:05 (permalink)
Postman Pat
So what do you think should be done to "address the issue"?

Stoopid_Fux
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/03/14 11:35:57 (permalink)
Postman Pat
SmokedEggs
 
The only Russian motive I can see is that they want to test the response of the UK and the relationship with the US.  



Add Brexit into the mix too, are we potentially in the weakest position we've been in for hundreds of years?
 
Part of me wonders is Putin is bit of a macabre prankster, sat in the the Kremlin right now chortling at how he's made the self important Brits go apeshit. 




he did seem to smirk when asked by a BBC reporter if he was behind it. 
LHC
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 11:37:08 (permalink)
Goodone
Postman Pat


The beliefs of that copper seem to be based on the actual evidence of what actually happened. Don’t let that get in the way of your beliefs though eh.


Given the police have sat on this for decades I would place more trust in an independent report. I'm not saying tabloids won't sensationalise news which us why I expect more from our state sponsored media!

We seem to be forgetting this is not the first instance of this occurring... Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford now Telford. This is nothing new yet it seems we never learn... a call for a debate is the way we deal with issues in a free country... trying to bury these issues and pretend they aren't there whilst shouting down those who want to address the issue of wholesale rape of kids happening across our towns and cities is totalitarianism

Fucking LOL
Mulla
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 11:42:23 (permalink)
SmokedEggs

Have to laugh though at the amount of brexit supporters phoning up LBC etc saying we need to ask Europe to join us in taking action against Russia. Err, hello, Brexit??



I've not heard these calls but surely that's more down to us being allies, rather than an EU specific thing, no? In the same way we'd expect the US to back us?
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 11:43:36 (permalink)
Mulla
SmokedEggs

Have to laugh though at the amount of brexit supporters phoning up LBC etc saying we need to ask Europe to join us in taking action against Russia. Err, hello, Brexit??



I've not heard these calls but surely that's more down to us being allies, rather than an EU specific thing, no? In the same way we'd expect the US to back us?


The EU were so helpful in providing a response after Litvinenko. Drafted a mean statement.

Meaningful sanctions or censure of any kind? Zero.
wiseacre
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 11:52:26 (permalink)
if i were to let my mind wander, putin's strategy at play here is to take advantage
of weakening relations between nato partners, the us, uk and eu. it didn't really matter who they bumped off, as long as it was an overt russian assassination attempt on foreign soil. russia is exploiting the current inability of nato members to provide a unified response and provoke dischord and disagreement over appropriate responsive action. not least as trump is extremely reluctant to even say anything negative against russia (poss poss because of piss tapes). here's hoping it drives us together, but given how weak and incompetent May and Trump are i'm not holding out much hope.

no
SmokedEggs
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 12:10:20 (permalink)
wiseacre
if i were to let my mind wander, putin's strategy at play here is to take advantage
of weakening relations between nato partners, the us, uk and eu. it didn't really matter who they bumped off, as long as it was an overt russian assassination attempt on foreign soil. russia is exploiting the current inability of nato members to provide a unified response and provoke dischord and disagreement over appropriate responsive action. not least as trump is extremely reluctant to even say anything negative against russia (poss poss because of piss tapes). here's hoping it drives us together, but given how weak and incompetent May and Trump are i'm not holding out much hope.




yeah, I think that is probably a plausible motive.
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 12:14:46 (permalink)
SmokedEggs
wiseacre
if i were to let my mind wander, putin's strategy at play here is to take advantage
of weakening relations between nato partners, the us, uk and eu. it didn't really matter who they bumped off, as long as it was an overt russian assassination attempt on foreign soil. russia is exploiting the current inability of nato members to provide a unified response and provoke dischord and disagreement over appropriate responsive action. not least as trump is extremely reluctant to even say anything negative against russia (poss poss because of piss tapes). here's hoping it drives us together, but given how weak and incompetent May and Trump are i'm not holding out much hope.




yeah, I think that is probably a plausible motive.


A minute ago you couldn’t think of a convincing Russian motive.

Suggestible much?
SmokedEggs
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 12:17:38 (permalink)
SW14
SmokedEggs
wiseacre
if i were to let my mind wander, putin's strategy at play here is to take advantage
of weakening relations between nato partners, the us, uk and eu. it didn't really matter who they bumped off, as long as it was an overt russian assassination attempt on foreign soil. russia is exploiting the current inability of nato members to provide a unified response and provoke dischord and disagreement over appropriate responsive action. not least as trump is extremely reluctant to even say anything negative against russia (poss poss because of piss tapes). here's hoping it drives us together, but given how weak and incompetent May and Trump are i'm not holding out much hope.



yeah, I think that is probably a plausible motive.


A minute ago you couldn’t think of a convincing Russian motive.

Suggestible much?



That's a either a misunderstanding or a misrepresentation of what I said, and I quote:
 

The only Russian motive I can see is that they want to test the response of the UK and the relationship with the US.  
 
As stated before I think there are possibly other parties with a greater motive for this than Russia.

 
It's not inconsistent to think that multiple, conflicting suggested motives are plausible but not to be completely convinced by all of them.  They can't all be true after all.
post edited by SmokedEggs - 2018/03/14 12:18:46
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 12:19:29 (permalink)
Can’t you see the blatantly obvious motive that the Kremlin blatantly, routinely and systematically assasssinates dissidents and “traitors” and Vladimir Putin explicitly said that they would be killed?
post edited by SW14 - 2018/03/14 12:20:35
SmokedEggs
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 12:24:48 (permalink)
SW14
Can’t you see the blatantly obvious motive that the Kremlin blatantly, routinely and systematically assasssinates dissidents and “traitors” and Vladimir Putin explicitly said that they would be killed?



...yet they've never before killed anyone involved in a spy swap...
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 12:28:05 (permalink)
This is the only spy swap that has ever happened under Putin.

Hardly like he has a long and illustrious history of respecting these agreements or there is a conveyor belt of Russian spies that he feels the need to protect.
Goodone
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 12:33:40 (permalink)
Postman Pat
Postman Pat
So what do you think should be done to "address the issue"?



Acknowledging the issue first
Then introduce proper controls over immigration
Integration plan to prevent aggregation of parallel communities

Pretty sure this has all been said before
Subsurface
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 12:39:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Whagwan 2018/03/14 15:14:15
Goodone
Postman Pat
Postman Pat
So what do you think should be done to "address the issue"?



Acknowledging the issue first
Then introduce proper controls over immigration
Integration plan to prevent aggregation of parallel communities

Pretty sure this has all been said before


Shut up you fucking twit.
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 12:44:06 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Lrrr 2018/03/14 13:40:24
Subsurface
Goodone
Postman Pat
Postman Pat
So what do you think should be done to "address the issue"?



Acknowledging the issue first
Then introduce proper controls over immigration
Integration plan to prevent aggregation of parallel communities

Pretty sure this has all been said before



Shut up you fucking twit.


Seems like a reasonable suggestion to me.
S8
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Re: Politics Thread 2018/03/14 12:50:20 (permalink)
Goodone
Lol no that's your inference, I've called for debate remember.

Again classic leftist response conflating a desire to discuss how the integration of Islamism into uk may work with racism.

When you guys going to realise that only makes the situation worse and makes you look like the fascists you claim to at constant war with



How does integration = fascism? The two things are polar opposites. You really have no clue, other than the right wing tagline of 'blame it on the immigrants' and 'the left are dumb and fascists'
 
Whilst you have never stated directly, like most extreme right people, you infer it in every post you make. You hide behind a modicum of intelligence and weirdly worded statements assembled via thesaurus to try and not look like a racist right winger. What you really want to say is probably heinous and right down in the depths of the gutter that would fit in with 1930's Italy or Germany. But you don't, for fear of showing your true colours and being branded a racist.
post edited by S8 - 2018/03/14 12:51:35
SmokedEggs
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Re: General Election 2015 2018/03/14 12:50:26 (permalink)
SW14
Subsurface
Goodone
Postman Pat
Postman Pat
So what do you think should be done to "address the issue"?



Acknowledging the issue first
Then introduce proper controls over immigration
Integration plan to prevent aggregation of parallel communities

Pretty sure this has all been said before



Shut up you fucking twit.


Seems like a reasonable suggestion to me.



the problem is it's all just platitudes with no detail.  It's a really fucking complicated issue and saying "integration plan" with no actual suggestion as to how to go about it is dumb in the extreme.
 
It's like saying "I would do it better innit"
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