AnsweredHot!Politics Thread

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RUSSELL CLARTY
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 11:39:40 (permalink)
Holy shit, you guys serious? 
 
Fuck me


KNUCKLES
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 11:42:53 (permalink)
SmokedEggs
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 11:48:55 (permalink)
richard murphy has a blog on it this morning:
 
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/12/07/dear-mr-hammond/
 
it's absolutely ridiculous.  UK productivity is low due to low pay, lack of investment in technology and old fashioned working practices.
 
 
 
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 11:51:11 (permalink)
This could also be a consequence of low corporation tax, which makes companies more likely to pay HMRC than offset taxes through investment.
Duderonomy
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 13:31:18 (permalink)
darkmatter
Duderonomy
 
Riiiiight... ::NOTSUREIFSERIOUSMEME::
A net contributor to the largest economy in the world, getting all of the trade benefits that come with membership.
Should suicide, sorry, hard Brexit actually happen, you'll get to witness first-hand just how great Brexit is.
 
But I think you're aware of this, so if I jumped in late to an ironic discussion and I'm missing the subtlety, my bad. Otherwise, keep sipping the Kool-Aid and don't mind me.




There was definitely plenty of sarcasm in my post but the fundamental point remains. It's not as simple as "the EU built Cardiff", it's more "London gave money to the EU who then gave it to Cardiff". The argument that the EU is an unnecessary intermediary (and potentially an additional overhead) in this exchange is perfectly valid, one that you haven't really attempted to refute. If you're disagreeing that's more a subjective disagreement than an objective "the welsh are stupid for voting against their own self interest".




RE: refuting... I'll stand behind the deeds of the Tories as they're doing a better job than I could ever manage; if there were ANY positives to Brexit, they'd have told us. They'd have told the EU. They'd have told the undiscovered virgin markets waiting to be exploited by Brit Empire v.2.
Simples.
Describing the strongest economy on the planet (which represents our biggest market) as an unecessary intermediary? Are you David Davis in disguise?
 
Great, you get control back of your taxes and contributions - to spend on what? Shipping goods to South America? Buying food from Malaysia?
gutlessrhyme
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 13:42:39 (permalink)
^^ on that note....one thing Brexiteers seem to ignore is the fact that the biggest market is on our fucking doorstep. Even if we do eventually make trade deals with Australia and bongo bongo land they're the other side of the world FFS.
Cherno Samba
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 13:55:07 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby 0-AID 2017/12/07 15:07:51
gutlessrhyme
^^ on that note....one thing Brexiteers seem to ignore is the fact that the biggest market is on our fucking doorstep. Even if we do eventually make trade deals with Australia and bongo bongo land they're the other side of the world FFS.



Also, most of the free trade advocates in tory think deregulation is what is going to allow us to form trade agreements with third parties elsewhere but  they don't seem to understand that trade deals require INCREASED regulation not less.
 
The reason the european union operates rather successfully as a free market is because of all the bloody rules imposed to standardise production/quality/etc
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 14:01:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby RAYZA 2017/12/07 14:41:10
On a trip to Pakistan:

'What's it feel like coming home Sadiq?'
'Home's South London mate. It's good to be in Pakistan, it's good to come from India, home of my parents and grandparents'
 
https://twitter.com/artworkmagnetic/status/938480587651866625



post edited by Whagwan - 2017/12/07 14:47:17
Cherno Samba
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 14:57:29 (permalink)
Whagwan
On a trip to Pakistan:

'What's it feel like coming home Sadiq?'
'Home's South London mate. It's good to be in Pakistan, it's good to come from India, home of my parents and grandparents'
 
https://twitter.com/artworkmagnetic/status/938480587651866625





 
Some staggering ignorance shown here
 
https://twitter.com/iainm...tus/938730719580483584
LHC
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 15:01:08 (permalink)
Not sure what is noteworthy about this. Londoners love an opportunity to point out that they're from London.
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 15:02:20 (permalink)
As does anyone south of Edgbaston and north of the Isle of Wight. 
0-AID
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 15:08:25 (permalink)
LHC
Not sure what is noteworthy about this. Londoners love an opportunity to point out that they're from London.




'Coz the rest of the UK is a shit hole, innit?

"I don't rap for dead presidents, I'd rather see the president dead, It's never been said, But I set precedents and the standards, and they can't stand it.."
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 15:09:44 (permalink)
LHC
Not sure what is noteworthy about this. Londoners love an opportunity to point out that they're from London.




If I went to Korea and someone asked me what it was like to come home I probably wouldn't be quite so polite to point out that home is Bristol and my father came from Hong Kong.
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 15:12:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby S8 2017/12/07 15:27:02
I like the way he slipped into Rotherhithe white van man tonality to deliver it.
LHC
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 15:12:42 (permalink)
I bet you would if you were the Mayor of London.
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 15:17:11 (permalink)
I'd issue all born and bred Londoners with "LONDONER" gold cards to jump queues, get free travel, housing and provide a forcefield against high street chuggers.
LHC
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 15:21:26 (permalink)
I was responding to Whagwan but fair enough. Didn't realise you'd posted at the same time as me but coincidentally my message could have applied to either message.
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 15:29:04 (permalink)
LHC
I bet you would if you were the Mayor of London.



Well yes, I would be more polite.  Doesn't stop it being a fucking insulting and inaccurate question though...
LHC
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 15:38:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Whagwan 2017/12/07 15:42:21
I agree with that. I was questioning the painting of Khan as some kind of king of the bantz legend for what was a regulation response to an idiotic question by an idiot.
Law
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 15:41:11 (permalink)
DrumBongo
Some staggering ignorance shown here
https://twitter.com/iainm...tus/938730719580483584




He's deliberately being a cunt surely? 
 
darkmatter
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 19:23:23 (permalink)
Duderonomy
Describing the strongest economy on the planet (which represents our biggest market) as an unecessary intermediary? Are you David Davis in disguise?
 


I wasn't suggesting that's the truth. I was suggesting it's perfectly reasonable for Brexit voting Welsh people to believe that - without that making them idiots.

I wasn't describing the strongest economy on the planet as an unnecessary intermediary, because the EU is not an economy, it is a political alliance. I was describing them, as seen through the eyes of some Welsh people, as an unnecessary intermediary in a specific context. I.e. where they take money from London and re-distribute to other UK regions. Maybe those Welsh people weren't envisioning a future with a Tory government, maybe they believe the government can change? I don't think that makes them stupid.

Duderonomy
Great, you get control back of your taxes and contributions - to spend on what? Shipping goods to South America? Buying food from Malaysia?


The Welsh brexiters probably hoped some would get spent on them?

I think you're overreacting a little - I voted remain and haven't been via any contempt panels recently. Also used to work for the European Regional Development Fund ha.
post edited by darkmatter - 2017/12/07 19:26:29

Goodone
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 19:35:00 (permalink)
Shouldn't be any tariffs on food under WTO I believe..  
Duderonomy
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 20:48:22 (permalink)
darkmatter
I think you're overreacting a little


Maybe. Maybe calling Brexiters stupid isn’t constructive, and maybe everything will work out great in the end, and England will win the World Cup in Qatar as a symbolic and literal validation of the inherent superiority of fair Albion.
But regardless of what Brexiters thought they were voting for, their ignorance doesn’t make them any less regressive or their decision any less wrong.
Maybe keeping a stiff upper lip and politely waiting for a fiasco to run its course that peak-Monty Python would’ve struggled to imagine isn’t the best response.
Maybe expecting the Tory scum who’ve spent the last 40 years selling off England to be looking out for the interests of the little guy is just a wee bit fucking retarded?

I’ll stand by what I said originally. People who voted Brexit were shooting themselves in the foot. The fact that the EU was more likely to redistribute our net contribution to places like Wales than the Tories ever would just makes it both barrels of a shotgun.
KNUCKLES
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/07 21:37:46 (permalink)
Martin Shulz suggesting a United States of Europe led to Farrage doing an ''I told you so'' special on LBC tonight.
Shulz suggested any country that didn't sign up to the agreement would be cast out of the EU. 
 
Farrage knew this was coming "the EU force everything on us" and he KNEW it and "so now a united states means an EU army" and he knew it back in 1991!!!!
 
Caller stumped him and said ''Simple, We'd refuse to sign up to it and that would be our get out of jail card with no need for a £50B exit bill...''  
Nigel was flustered
darkmatter
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/08 14:44:08 (permalink)
Duderonomy

I’ll stand by what I said originally. People who voted Brexit were shooting themselves in the foot. The fact that the EU was more likely to redistribute our net contribution to places like Wales than the Tories ever would just makes it both barrels of a shotgun.



Maybe these people were thinking a bit longer term than 4 years? I.e. they weren't assuming the tories would be in power forever? That's not a crazy outlook, it's fairly rational.

gutlessrhyme
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/08 15:04:51 (permalink)
darkmatter
Duderonomy

I’ll stand by what I said originally. People who voted Brexit were shooting themselves in the foot. The fact that the EU was more likely to redistribute our net contribution to places like Wales than the Tories ever would just makes it both barrels of a shotgun.



Maybe these people were thinking a bit longer term than 4 years? I.e. they weren't assuming the tories would be in power forever? That's not a crazy outlook, it's fairly rational.


 Nah it's irrational and overtly risky. Voting Brexit because you think a nice Labour party  might get voted in in 20 years time and do some good, whilst in the meantime hoping that the Tories don't fuck it up too much is irresponsible.

Do we have any evidence yet that there will be any net benefits of leaving the EU? To me it's just a massive question mark which could easily go well or go completely tits up. Why would you take that risk with the entirety of the Country's economy and your kid's futures on a whim? 
Duderonomy
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/08 15:25:59 (permalink)
gutlessrhyme
darkmatter
Duderonomy

I’ll stand by what I said originally. People who voted Brexit were shooting themselves in the foot. The fact that the EU was more likely to redistribute our net contribution to places like Wales than the Tories ever would just makes it both barrels of a shotgun.



Maybe these people were thinking a bit longer term than 4 years? I.e. they weren't assuming the tories would be in power forever? That's not a crazy outlook, it's fairly rational.


Nah it's irrational and overtly risky. Voting Brexit because you think a nice Labour party  might get voted in in 20 years time and do some good, whilst in the meantime hoping that the Tories don't fuck it up too much is irresponsible.

Do we have any evidence yet that there will be any net benefits of leaving the EU? To me it's just a massive question mark which could easily go well or go completely tits up. Why would you take that risk with the entirety of the Country's economy and your kid's futures on a whim? 




Unless my memory is defective, I also think Tories did quite well in Wales at the last election.
darkmatter
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/08 17:01:38 (permalink)
gutlessrhyme
 
 
To me it's just a massive question mark which could easily go well or go completely tits up. Why would you take that risk with the entirety of the Country's economy and your kid's futures on a whim? 




Most good things come out of people taking risks. You don't strike me as a risk taker I have to say, Brexit is like being stranded in the cold dark Bristol night without an Uber in sight. I suspect you'd tell Emily Davison that horses are dangerous, or Rosa Parkes that the back of the bus is actually not that bad.
 
If your whole argument is based on the premise that we'll have a tory government for the next 20 years I'd say that's a pretty weak foundation.

SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/08 17:11:57 (permalink)
darkmatter
gutlessrhyme
 
 
To me it's just a massive question mark which could easily go well or go completely tits up. Why would you take that risk with the entirety of the Country's economy and your kid's futures on a whim? 




You don't strike me as a risk taker I have to say, Brexit is like being stranded in the cold dark Bristol night without an Uber in sight.  
 




Stoopid_Fux
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/12/08 17:27:15 (permalink)
lol
 
 
bit Del Boy there
 

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