AnsweredHot!Politics Thread

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darkmatter
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/15 16:07:49 (permalink)
frizzyd
 
I never once mentioned fining people for missed appointments as that is completely unworkable, chasing those sorts of debts will cost more than the revenue the fines would create. Then once the fines are issued, they'd be about as enforceable as those given to parents who's kids miss school.

 
Ah apologies, I saw this and completely misinterpreted
 
frizzyd
Whagwan
What about those for who a fiver is a huge amount of their weekly budget (not most of us here but a significant part of the population given the amount of in work tax credits and housing benefits)?




There are ways around it though.
 
If you apply a similar system to the way free prescriptions work, you could roll it out with some additional tweaks to include those on housing benefit or even any form of benefit to ensure only those who can afford it, actually pay for their appointments.


 

Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/15 16:16:01 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby RAYZA 2017/02/15 16:56:00
Whiskey_Bill
So what you guys are saying is that a long-term strategy of accessibility and prevention goes further than feeding the bloated bureaucracy of reactionary care. Interesting that I mentioned exactly that hours ago.





No what we are saying is fuck off you nazi sadcase troll no one wants your noise on here any more
darkmatter
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/15 16:26:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Whagwan 2017/02/15 16:33:01
"If someone joins a different culture/society, it's perfectly reasonable that they abide by their standards of behaviour"

frizzyd
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/15 17:06:54 (permalink)
darkmatter
Ah apologies, I saw this and completely misinterpreted

 
No worries :-)
 
Whagwan
You say this and yet one of the decent things Blair did (for all his myriad faults) was to tie NHS funding to the % of GDP spent on healthcare across Europe which resulted in year on year increases. 

In 2010 the NHS was recording its lowest waiting lists and highest satisfaction results.  Although not quite as simple as "chucking loads of money" at it it does seem to imply that increasing funding (and that of social care which we all know has a direct knock-on to NHS pressure) does actually increase the value of the NHS.

 
I am not disputing there is a funding issue, I am just saying the lack of funding is not the only issue. Of course greater investment will create better outcomes as you've illustrated. Personally the first thing which needs to be done is ring fence the NHS from being used as political football.
 
Create a cross party working group which properly discusses the future of the NHS, what reforms it needs, what funding it needs, where is that funding coming from and have an honest conversation about how to secure its future as an effective health system.These discussions have to involve people working in the NHS, social care system DofH and the general public.
 
No party campaigns on the future of the NHS and any health debate is taken out of the political arena altogether. The funding raised via whatever taxation which is agreed upon is ring fenced for an agreed period. And not a single reform occurs again until it is properly considered and properly funded.
 
I appreciate this scenario is massively idealistic as MP's just love playing a game NHS football especially when certain MP's  private financial interests rely on its failure!
post edited by frizzyd - 2017/02/15 17:08:03
Jungle Dave
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/15 17:21:05 (permalink)
frizzyd
Personally the first thing which needs to be done is ring fence the NHS from being used as political football.
 
 



 
See also: Drugs, Education and Justice policy
 
 
 
 

frizzyd
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/15 17:37:38 (permalink)
Jungle Dave
frizzyd
Personally the first thing which needs to be done is ring fence the NHS from being used as political football.
 
 



 
See also: Drugs, Education and Justice policy
 


Let's be realistic, baby steps David, baby steps!
Whiskey_Bill
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 12:15:33 (permalink)
Law
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 13:38:00 (permalink)
Tony Blair calls for people to 'rise up' against Brexit http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38996179 
 
In other news, Hitler reckons Trump is a bad idea. 
 
Just fuck right off. His cuntery knows no bounds.
Jamie S23
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 13:39:38 (permalink)
Why does Blair even think he's relevant?
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 13:45:29 (permalink)
He has a full on Messiah complex, in his head he's risen up to save the people!
Whiskey_Bill
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 13:49:00 (permalink)
Globalist shills gotta shill man
Jungle Dave
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 13:53:18 (permalink)
Law
Tony Blair calls for people to 'rise up' against Brexit http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38996179 

In other news, Hitler reckons Trump is a bad idea. 

Just fuck right off. His cuntery knows no bounds.



 
Blair was a massive factor IN Brexit, if he had the humility to look at the effects of his actions. 
 
Ignored the pleas to not go to war> destabilised Iraq > Rise of ISIS> Refugee crisis in Europe> Rise of so-called populists> Brexit 

DJModus
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 14:05:07 (permalink)
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/02/17/week-in-review-the-second-coming-oif-tony-bl-air?utm_source=Editorial+newsletter&utm_campaign=9094f2bc66-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_02_17&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_cb6d3a8c9c-9094f2bc66-180970197
 
Interesting take on Blair weighing in. Not sure I'm convinced, but it makes some good points. Essentially boils down to  -  yes he's a cunt and always will be, but no one since has been able to speak as plainly and coherently and this makes him an important figure in the anti-Brexit camp going forward.
 
 
Within the first two minutes he had made a clearer, more consistent, emotionally engaging argument against Brexit than any other figure has managed in the months since the vote. It was a rational argument, listing clearly and in simple language the damage that was about to be inflicted on the country. It was highly intelligent, while still perfectly comprehensible to anyone. It did not talk down to its audience, but nor did it alienate them. It used striking and readily understandable visual imagery. It left you in no doubt as to the speaker's position, unlike the 'constructive ambiguity' of May or the shambolic intellectual absence of Jeremy Corbyn. It did not try to sidestep difficult issues, as Cameron had on immigration during the referendum. It was the product of a speech writing team which had stress-tested arguments and role played the likely responses. It dealt with visions of Britain's role in the world in a way that felt credible and desirable, rather than dreamlike and self-interested. It was an excellent speech and probably his best since the Labour conference speech following the September 11th attacks in 2001.
 
None of this is easy to say. I opposed much of what Blair did in power, including, most tragically and appallingly, on Iraq, but also on civil liberties. Many of the  criticisms of him are fair. Perhaps if EU expansion had been handled more cautiously, tensions over immigration would not be so high now. Perhaps if the left had not given up on economic arguments under Blair, parts of the working class would not now be drifting off to authoritarian nationalism. Perhaps if he had not broken the bond of public trust over Iraq, people would have believed the warnings which were issued during the referendum campaign.
Jungle Dave
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 14:10:04 (permalink)
That's the true tragedy of Blair. He was talented and could have sorted this country out. Instead we have been left this shit heap of a legacy.

Law
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 14:16:58 (permalink)
Valid points and I mostly agree Modus, but the problem is all that stuff came out of his mouth. He is a fucking cunt and anything he says will just hurt this cause and serve to rally and further validate brexiters.
Whagwan
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 14:19:37 (permalink)
If you have your conspiracy head on it could look like Blair is doing his best to sabotage Corbyn-led Labour's chances in the upcoming by-elections, both in Brexit voting areas.
 
Given we know he's a lying cunt and has openly stated he wouldn't want a leftist party to win a General Election it suddenly doesn't seem so infeasible.
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 14:20:55 (permalink)
Jungle Dave
That's the true tragedy of Blair. He was talented and could have sorted this country out. Instead we have been left this shit heap of a legacy.




Blair was a pretty good PM in some ways. Official policy of mass immigration for imported votes (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html) B2B Iraq war have sewn the seeds of a terror and Brexit backlash.
 
As a pure communicator and a statesman he was an absolute heavyweight in his pomp.
Whiskey_Bill
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 14:23:19 (permalink)
i'd rather listen to Christopher Hitchens RIP
 

 
gutlessrhyme
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 14:55:41 (permalink)
Blair needs to keep his neb out. He's not going to help the cause the for people on the remain side, at all. No one trusts or respects him anymore so it's about as useful as having Jimmy Savile weigh in on the debate.

wiseacre
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 15:03:37 (permalink)
yeah, one of the key things the remain campaign fucked up was having cameron as its de facto figurehead. i know you have to have a thick skin to survive in politics, but there's that and then there's not realising how toxic and hated you are that huge chunks of the population will go with the other side just because of you.
post edited by wiseacre - 2017/02/17 15:04:46

no
Jungle Dave
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 15:48:32 (permalink)
It's like Clegg, every time he opens his weak mouth on drug law reform I just cringe and cover my ears

Stoopid_Fux
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 16:10:16 (permalink)
wiseacre
yeah, one of the key things the remain campaign fucked up was having cameron as its de facto figurehead. i know you have to have a thick skin to survive in politics, but there's that and then there's not realising how toxic and hated you are that huge chunks of the population will go with the other side just because of you.




 
Agree.
Some ppl did vote for Brexit just because it would "get rid of Cameron" - which it did in fairness - but should never have been a reason for voting for Brexit
 
Same with some ppl who voted for Corbyn as Labour leader just because likes of Tony Blair , Alistair Campbell and Peter Mandelson popped up and kept telling ppl not to vote for Corbyn. 
 
Certain politicians should be more self-aware of how toxic they are amongst some of the public and don't seem to realise their interventions are often detrimental. 
 
gutlessrhyme
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 16:11:25 (permalink)
I quite like Clegg and feel a bit sorry for him, but he's never going to be respected by the electorate after UniversityFeesGate. He had his shot at the top (sort of) and fucked it up. (Although not to the same extent Blair did)

darkmatter
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 16:15:16 (permalink)
Ian Dunt
 
Within the first two minutes he had made a clearer, more consistent, emotionally engaging argument against Brexit than any other figure has managed in the months since the vote. 



Bollocks, it was the same old argument that has been on loop since the remain campaign started.

Jungle Dave
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 16:51:11 (permalink)
gutlessrhyme
I quite like Clegg and feel a bit sorry for him, but he's never going to be respected by the electorate after UniversityFeesGate. He had his shot at the top (sort of) and fucked it up. (Although not to the same extent Blair did)




 
The worst thing was purely the relief of a hung Parliament morphing into a Tory lead coalition. And Clegg enabled it, the cunt

SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 16:55:15 (permalink)
Jungle Dave
gutlessrhyme
I quite like Clegg and feel a bit sorry for him, but he's never going to be respected by the electorate after UniversityFeesGate. He had his shot at the top (sort of) and fucked it up. (Although not to the same extent Blair did)




 
The worst thing was purely the relief of a hung Parliament morphing into a Tory lead coalition. And Clegg enabled it, the cunt




The country was fucked economically and Labour were desperately trying to hold onto the reigns despite losing. They did the right thing going into coalition. No government really was the last thing we needed at that time.
 
It's funny how a lot of PR advocates slam Clegg for going into coalition, a state which is perfectly normal across many democracies.
Stoopid_Fux
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 16:56:10 (permalink)
yeh but at same time could say we're actually seeing now that the coalition did actually put the breaks on some Tory plans - at least for a bit. This current government is worse than Cameron and Cleggs coalition. 
SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 16:57:04 (permalink)
Stoopid_Fux
yeh but at same time could say we're actually seeing now that the coalition did actually put the breaks on some Tory plans - at least for a bit. This government is worse than Cameron and Cleggs. 




Agreed. I said I wanted the same again before the election. 
Jungle Dave
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 17:00:35 (permalink)
SW14
 
 
The country was fucked economically and Labour were desperately trying to hold onto the reigns despite losing. They did the right thing going into coalition. No government really was the last thing we needed at that time.
 
It's funny how a lot of PR advocates slam Clegg for going into coalition, a state which is perfectly normal across many democracies.




 
My gut disagreed with my head, which tried to justify Clegg in much the same way you did- Brown was so toxic and arrogant by that point and the Labour military interventions was experiencing a glut of bodybags at Royal Wootton Bassett. You couldn't get into bed with Labour!
 
Now look what that decision did to the country and look what it did to Clegg and the Liberals. My gut was spot the fuck on. 

SW14
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Re: General Election 2015 2017/02/17 17:03:54 (permalink)
I don't think he should have been punished in the way that he was. I don't think he should have given away his redline on tuition fees either.
 
It's easy to be critical with hindsight, but the country was in a mess at that time and it needed a government. Labour holding onto power would've been an unprecedented constitutional crisis.
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