AnsweredHot![FAQ]FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION

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dreamworld
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/11 16:15:29 (permalink)
Sheriff Lobo
I get what you're saying DW, but by the same token, do you think black people should be 'banned' from using the N-bomb?
 
It's a similar argument imo... Not sure of the answer tbh.


This parallel often seems to be drawn with this argument, imo they are two different situations but let's say for a moment they were the same. No I don't have any problem with black people saying that, but it wouldn't be socially acceptable for 30k of them to be shouting it in unison at a football match.
Law
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/11 16:19:11 (permalink)
It's not a simple, logical issue. It's emotive one steeped in history. Some things aren't that black and white. 
I don't really have a good answer for you, but if a group of people take the sting out of a word by identifying with it after years of it being used against them, surely it's hypocritical to then tell them they suddenly it's wrong when they use it?
 
The context and meaning of a word means everything. 
MF182
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/11 16:48:18 (permalink)
gavinx
 proud of the lads. 
 




dreamworld
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/11 16:49:14 (permalink)
Law
but if a group of people take the sting out of a word by identifying with it after years of it being used against them, surely it's hypocritical to then tell them they suddenly it's wrong when they use it?


Who are we talking about here, Jews or Tottenham fans? Like Majik says the Jewish Tottenham fan base is pretty small, I'd wager that it's a minority of them that sing it if it's offensive to them. Are non Jewish fans allowed to say it because they mean it in a good way?

Law
 
The context and meaning of a word means everything. 




I agree completely but that works both ways. Let's say a Chelsea fan says it, like someone said on the previous page it's assumed they're doing it to be anti simetic. How do you know that? Yids has almost become a nickname for the club itself, used by fans and oppo alike. Someone saying they hate the Yids doesn't necessarily have any racial connotations whatsoever but if someone hears it and takes it that way it could be prosecuted as a hate crime (maybe) it's massively hypocritical and if it's unacceptable which it obviously is they have to tackle the issue across the league.

I'll get off my high horse now, excuse me
post edited by dreamworld - 2017/09/11 17:08:53
Rudiger01
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/11 17:55:17 (permalink)
Kike was always a funnier word. Rolls off the tongue
JUDGEDREDD
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/11 18:36:20 (permalink)
Can't bodge the Hodge
JUDGEDREDD
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/11 19:02:35 (permalink)
mouse oxford
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/11 19:55:39 (permalink)
I must have missed why this Yid issue has come up again? Thought it was dealt with a few years back when Baddiel got on his high horse and it was rightly dismissed as twaddle. It's funny how its Chelsea fans who seem to take the most issue with it. You'd think they would concentrate on getting their own house in order first. 
 
As Law said the core of this issue is intent. A word has no meaning without intent or context.
 
Singing "Yid Army" is not meant to offend, i'm yet to find a Jewish fan, Spurs or not that is genuinely offended by it.
 
Where as the West Ham fan that screamed "stinking fucking yids" at us and threw a handful of change over when they played us in the League Cup a few years back clearly did mean to offend. 
 
In the big scheme of things there are worse things sung on the concourse by supporters of every team in the country.
 
The shit we sing about Wenger and Sol Campbell for example. 
post edited by mouse oxford - 2017/09/11 20:33:54
SW14
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/11 19:59:58 (permalink)
The fact is Tottenham took some horrific anti-semitic abuse back in the Alf Garnett days and most of it was from Chelsea, Arsenal and West Ham. Leeds as well.
 
Proper nasty, anti-semitic stuff about gas chambers, being on their way to Aushwitz etc. It is born out of something highly unpleasant. 
 
You're right, these days Spurs fans call themselves "Yid Army", their firm is called "the Yids" and many fans singing "he fucking hates the Yids" would not have had any idea about the anti-semitism behind it, it's just a nickname.
 
Spurs fans don't sing it in a pejorative way and I'm afraid some of ours do. That's the big difference. It's time to consign it to the dustbin of history and don't worry about what Spurs are doing. 
 
Arsenal fans sing "yiddo, yiddo" most games after "we hate Tottenham and we hate Tottenham", WHU's whole away end were singing "Adolf Hitler, he's coming for you" at the Lane and we are talking only a few years ago. It isn't just Chelsea and franky I think the stance from the club has brought more attention on it than West Ham got for a song which is 50x worse. 
 
The next PC crusade in football will be fans getting nicked for singing "Chelsea rentboys".
mouse oxford
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/11 20:22:41 (permalink)
SW14
The fact is Tottenham took some horrific anti-semitic abuse back in the Alf Garnett days and most of it was from Chelsea, Arsenal and West Ham. Leeds as well.
 
Proper nasty, anti-semitic stuff about gas chambers, being on their way to Aushwitz etc. It is born out of something highly unpleasant. 
 
You're right, these days Spurs fans call themselves "Yid Army", their firm is called "the Yids" and many fans singing "he fucking hates the Yids" would not have had any idea about the anti-semitism behind it, it's just a nickname.
 
Spurs fans don't sing it in a pejorative way and I'm afraid some of ours do. That's the big difference. It's time to consign it to the dustbin of history and don't worry about what Spurs are doing. 
 
Arsenal fans sing "yiddo, yiddo" most games after "we hate Tottenham and we hate Tottenham", WHU's whole away end were singing "Adolf Hitler, he's coming for you" at the Lane and we are talking only a few years ago. It isn't just Chelsea and franky I think the stance from the club has brought more attention on it than West Ham got for a song which is 50x worse. 
 
The next PC crusade in football will be fans getting nicked for singing "Chelsea rentboys".




Exactly, pretending it doesn't happen isn't the way, but neither is coming down massively heavily handed and taking things out of context. A good start is to ask the people at the receiving end whether they where actually offended or not.
post edited by mouse oxford - 2017/09/11 20:33:00
dreamworld
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/11 20:23:49 (permalink)
I only took issue with it after the club had to issue another grovelling apology for it. It's been reported that the song suggested Morata hated Jews. I mean ffs lol, talking about context.

If you must keep using it maybe it's time to add a definition so it also means 'Tottenham Supporter' then we can all carry on as we were.
mouse oxford
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/11 20:31:25 (permalink)
To be honest i much prefer football songs that concentrate on your own team rather than having to sing about a rival in every song.
 
Fair enough when you're playing the team in question, but otherwise why feel the need to constantly bang on about them.
 
Can't Eriksen just be good on his own rather then being better than Ozil?  
post edited by mouse oxford - 2017/09/11 20:37:59
SW14
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/11 21:09:38 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dreamworld 2017/09/11 21:14:20
dreamworld
I only took issue with it after the club had to issue another grovelling apology for it. It's been reported that the song suggested Morata hated Jews. I mean ffs lol, talking about context.

If you must keep using it maybe it's time to add a definition so it also means 'Tottenham Supporter' then we can all carry on as we were.


Fact is the nickname is originally borne out of decades of quite extreme anti-semitism Spurs and that's something none of us should be too proud of.

Also rather than it just being "them" and "us" there are Jewish Chelsea fans who I'm sure don't feel too comfortable hearing the word "yid". Probably including our owner.
boomhauer
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/11 21:49:21 (permalink)
dreamworld
Care to elaborate? I know the history behind it, but put any allegiance to one side for a moment. An offensive word is an offensive word, you can't have a situation where it's illegal for one group of people to say something and it's fine for others. How could that possibly play out in court? Could someone rock up in a Tottenham shirt and say they meant it the 'good' way?!

Its not about which group of people say it, its about the intent.
Law
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/12 11:01:57 (permalink)
mouse
Can't Eriksen just be good on his own rather then being better than Ozil?  

 
We've got Alli, Dele Alli, I just dont think you understand.
He only cost 5 mill, he's better than lots of other players but no one in particular as everyone is a winner and it's the taking part that counts.
WE'VE GOT DELE ALLI!
Jimmy2Shoes
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/12 11:08:57 (permalink)
Unbeaten clubs in the prem
Man U
Man City
Watford

Will come to an end when we play City on Saturday though
gavinx
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Law
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/12 13:00:09 (permalink)
Fucking lol at the Vengaboys ref
frizzyd
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/12 13:28:50 (permalink)
Hector Savage
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/12 14:09:51 (permalink)
That really is quite something from Squires.
 
He is amazing.
Rudiger01
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/12 17:07:18 (permalink)
Law
mouse
Can't Eriksen just be good on his own rather then being better than Ozil?  

 
We've got Alli, Dele Alli, I just dont think you understand.
He only cost 5 mill, he's better than lots of other players but no one in particular as everyone is a winner and it's the taking part that counts.
WE'VE GOT DELE ALLI!




 

JUDGEDREDD
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/12 17:11:05 (permalink)
Rudiger01
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/12 17:16:40 (permalink)
Im just not digging the last few of Squires stuff at all
RAYZA
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/12 17:29:44 (permalink)
I just know Adama is gonna tear us a new one tonight, we should have never sold the cunt
RAYZA
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/12 18:50:45 (permalink)
lol, got sent off after 2 minutes
gutlessrhyme
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/12 21:21:04 (permalink)
The boy Rashford loves a debut doesn't he


Law
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/13 08:10:05 (permalink)
Neymar being a complete little tosser last night. Can't even shake hands with some 18 year old who his team beat 5-0 because the kid laughed when he dived.
 
https://twitter.com/Footy_Says/status/907843449927413760 
badder2
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/13 08:29:01 (permalink)
He genuinely comes across as a completely awful cunt. 
 
Seems to always want to give it the big one as well despite having the size and stature of an 11 year old girl. 
frizzyd
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/13 08:33:17 (permalink)

 
Welcome Woy
Me_Kick_Out_Teet
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Re: RE: FOOTBALL TALK & SPECULATION 2017/09/13 08:35:09 (permalink)
Razor
I just know Adama is gonna tear us a new one tonight, we should have never sold the cunt




I thought that he was gonna murder us too... 
 
We were def right to sell him though, he is good for 1 game a season. 
 
Still, we need to start looking for another manager now... Bruce has had enough time and still doesn't seem to know what he is doing. I have no idea who we bring in though but he def needs to go 
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