You're the one getting ansty, I'm just saying I don't think the replies you're giving me are particularly valid. However as you say, it's your opinion and you can do do what you like and know what you like. I don't think anything I've said is incorrect though, I'm just not seeing these obstacles with dnb/174 bpm that you seem to think are stopping you from enjoying it anymore.
The thing about dnb is that the 'only' space to manoeuver is within the context of a mix between two tracks that are bound to be similar. Thats is not a lot of scope.
I did say 'only' with little apostrophe's to make sure someone dealing only (no apostrophe) with absolutes wouldn't jump on it.
The thing is, a genre is a set of rules no matter how you put it. How much you individually adhere to those are a personal thing, obviously. The fact that tracks in order to get a proper reception by an audience (in dnb terms) 'needs' to be presented by the dj and his oppinion on how you adhere to those rules, means another form of censorship is going to go on.
True, but there as well as producers willing to make something different from the norm there are DJs willing to play them tunes too. Just not necessarily to as big an audience, because people paying for venues or airtime are usually worried at taking a risk and scared they might not make any money back for it.
For me its more about coming up with your own techniques that you re use rather than re using actual sounds......for example, I'm prone to taking one of the vocal / melody elements in a tune, chopping a very small slice of it, laying on plenty reverb n delay bouncing down and reversing to use as a swell into that element dropping.....I do this in pretty much every tune I make.....which probably means that the production sounds like my style but isn't just using the same sounds over n over?? Things like filter sweeps, booms and crashes I tend to re use but don't think these are easily identifiable as the same sample from tune to tune
I don't care, you just asked a question and I'm answering it, if you don't want people to tell you what they think, don't ask them a question.
I'm not sure what question you think i'm asking, but it's definitely not "why am i so bored of Drum & Bass"....i know why that is even if you persist in trying to make me think that my reasons are unjustified.
I know what you're saying, you're saying that just because successful artists are writing one thing, that doesn't mean you have to, and i fully agree with that and have never once tried to adhere to that when i was writing DnB.
I'm just bored of the scene as a whole. I won't lie, a lot of that is probably down to spending a large part of my life obsessively trying to make something of myself within it unsuccessfully. But where before i would let it get me down, i now feel better than i have in ages to have put it behind me and to be a part of something fresh and new that's beginning to emerge.
I don't care, you just asked a question and I'm answering it, if you don't want people to tell you what they think, don't ask them a question.
I'm not sure what question you think i'm asking, but it's definitely not "why am i so bored of Drum & Bass"....i know why that is even if you persist in trying to make me think that my reasons are unjustified.
I know what you're saying, you're saying that just because successful artists are writing one thing, that doesn't mean you have to, and i fully agree with that and have never once tried to adhere to that when i was writing DnB.
I'm just bored of the scene as a whole. I won't lie, a lot of that is probably down to spending a large part of my life obsessively trying to make something of myself within it unsuccessfully. But where before i would let it get me down, i now feel better than i have in ages to have put it behind me and to be a part of something fresh and new that's beginning to emerge.
I know this isn't really the point of the thread, but what do you consider to be success? If you compare yourself to Andy C, then maybe you can say you haven't made it, but I thought you were doing pretty well. More so than a lot of established producers actually.
personally it does my head in a bit when I hear people advising producers that they need to 'find their own sound', only because that normally entails people feeling like they need to find this little niche sound of their own and then stick to making a load of cookie cutter tunes in that same style over and over. ok, well done, you've created something unique (or in a lot of cases not so much) , just a shame all your tunes now sound the same. I suppose that's fair enough if that's genuinely the only sound you like making but I just wonder how people don't get bored doing things that way.
ofcourse everyone has a sound to some degree - at the end of the day the music you make is essentially an extension of your personality so a lot of the time you'll naturally find yourself making tunes that have a similar vibe with similar sounds or whatever, which is great - I just don't particularly agree with this whole bullshit of 'finding your own sound', or what people mean by that anyway. I just think at the end of the day, make whatever you like and what comes naturally to you and what comes out will be your 'sound', don't conciously sit down and feel as though you need to be putting these same sounds and whatnot in all your tunes just for the sake of it so you can go round saying you've found a sound.
while I say this I can understand it in a way. I think its an easy trap to fall into because once you've become known for making a certain type of sound you can kind of feel a bit pressured into having to keep to that, I just think it would be better if people focused more on making good music and challenging themselves as artists than sitting down and churning out music by numbers that all sound the same for the sake of it. personally I find a lot of the most fresh and exciting producers, bands, etc, are those who don't pigeonhole themselves into a very particular sound and who are always pushing things forward and trying out new ideas.
< Message edited by JakeDaniel -- 11/7/2012 5:58:41 PM >
As an art form its important for music to at least try to progress and evolve, so to advise people not to try an find their own sound would be ridiculous.
No ones forcing anyone to do anything but if people really want to try and make a contribution to the culture its paramount that they try to evolve an keep things fresh.
Having said that, if some people just want to emulate what they love thats fine as well, whatever gets you though the day, but getting upset about people suggesting people find their own sound is pretty strange.
ORIGINAL: Sidius What are other peoples views on this, do you think that re-using sounds is what makes producers really successful?
I said what i like doing on the first page without actually paying attention to the question propperly, just thinking i have similar view point with regards to using the same sounds again and again.
But i would of thought to be instantly recognisable as you or whoever, same sounds get used again and again. Like a live band maybe, same drum kit, same bass guitar, same synth, same guitar, same singer. All oasis tracks sound the same but different melodies. (well suposedly loads of their tracks had the exact same chord sequence going on)
But then chase and status, their tracks don't sound instantly recognisable as them from one tune to another. (this is going from my ganja filled memory though)
I don't care, you just asked a question and I'm answering it, if you don't want people to tell you what they think, don't ask them a question.
I'm not sure what question you think i'm asking, but it's definitely not "why am i so bored of Drum & Bass"....i know why that is even if you persist in trying to make me think that my reasons are unjustified.
I know what you're saying, you're saying that just because successful artists are writing one thing, that doesn't mean you have to, and i fully agree with that and have never once tried to adhere to that when i was writing DnB.
I'm just bored of the scene as a whole. I won't lie, a lot of that is probably down to spending a large part of my life obsessively trying to make something of myself within it unsuccessfully. But where before i would let it get me down, i now feel better than i have in ages to have put it behind me and to be a part of something fresh and new that's beginning to emerge.
I know this isn't really the point of the thread, but what do you consider to be success? If you compare yourself to Andy C, then maybe you can say you haven't made it, but I thought you were doing pretty well. More so than a lot of established producers actually.
I consider success to be some sort of recognition from your peers of the music that you make.
I was very lucky to have a decent following of peeps that did like my music, enough even to fly me and Wayz over to Austria for a gig and i loved all the moments that made me realise that what i was doing wasn't going completely to waste and that there were people out there who got some enjoyment from the music i was making.
But as far as getting any sort of recognition from within the mile high walled city of DnB's self styled elite, there was nothing. I know it shouldn't have mattered or made a difference, but when you work on release after release, shell out your own hard earned cash on a label you set up yourself because no-one else would take a chance on your music, only for release day to come and go without barely a whisper because no-one will play your music......well it gets you down after a time.
Prime example, I sent El Hornet my latest release on AIM which went through, fast forward a couple of months and i post my video up on twitter and tweet it to him to see if he'll post it to his feed. I get a reply saying that the track is wicked and that i should have sent it over to him because it's right up his street and he would've caned it......it's enough to make you scream!! (I should say that El Hornet is actually well sound, but it's that kind of mentality that permeates the whole scene.)
personally it does my head in a bit when I hear people advising producers that they need to 'find their own sound', only because that normally entails people feeling like they need to find this little niche sound of their own and then stick to making a load of cookie cutter tunes in that same style over and over. ok, well done, you've created something unique (or in a lot of cases not so much) , just a shame all your tunes now sound the same. I suppose that's fair enough if that's genuinely the only sound you like making but I just wonder how people don't get bored doing things that way.
ofcourse everyone has a sound to some degree - at the end of the day the music you make is essentially an extension of your personality so a lot of the time you'll naturally find yourself making tunes that have a similar vibe with similar sounds or whatever, which is great - I just don't particularly agree with this whole bullshit of 'finding your own sound', or what people mean by that anyway. I just think at the end of the day, make whatever you like and what comes naturally to you and what comes out will be your 'sound', don't conciously sit down and feel as though you need to be putting these same sounds and whatnot in all your tunes just for the sake of it so you can go round saying you've found a sound.
while I say this I can understand it in a way. I think its an easy trap to fall into because once you've become known for making a certain type of sound you can kind of feel a bit pressured into having to keep to that, I just think it would be better if people focused more on making good music and challenging themselves as artists than sitting down and churning out music by numbers that all sound the same for the sake of it. personally I find a lot of the most fresh and exciting producers, bands, etc, are those who don't pigeonhole themselves into a very particular sound and who are always pushing things forward and trying out new ideas.
I don't care, you just asked a question and I'm answering it, if you don't want people to tell you what they think, don't ask them a question.
I'm not sure what question you think i'm asking, but it's definitely not "why am i so bored of Drum & Bass"....i know why that is even if you persist in trying to make me think that my reasons are unjustified.
I know what you're saying, you're saying that just because successful artists are writing one thing, that doesn't mean you have to, and i fully agree with that and have never once tried to adhere to that when i was writing DnB.
I'm just bored of the scene as a whole. I won't lie, a lot of that is probably down to spending a large part of my life obsessively trying to make something of myself within it unsuccessfully. But where before i would let it get me down, i now feel better than i have in ages to have put it behind me and to be a part of something fresh and new that's beginning to emerge.
I know this isn't really the point of the thread, but what do you consider to be success? If you compare yourself to Andy C, then maybe you can say you haven't made it, but I thought you were doing pretty well. More so than a lot of established producers actually.
I consider success to be some sort of recognition from your peers of the music that you make.
I was very lucky to have a decent following of peeps that did like my music, enough even to fly me and Wayz over to Austria for a gig and i loved all the moments that made me realise that what i was doing wasn't going completely to waste and that there were people out there who got some enjoyment from the music i was making.
But as far as getting any sort of recognition from within the mile high walled city of DnB's self styled elite, there was nothing. I know it shouldn't have mattered or made a difference, but when you work on release after release, shell out your own hard earned cash on a label you set up yourself because no-one else would take a chance on your music, only for release day to come and go without barely a whisper because no-one will play your music......well it gets you down after a time.
Prime example, I sent El Hornet my latest release on AIM which went through, fast forward a couple of months and i post my video up on twitter and tweet it to him to see if he'll post it to his feed. I get a reply saying that the track is wicked and that i should have sent it over to him because it's right up his street and he would've caned it......it's enough to make you scream!! (I should say that El Hornet is actually well sound, but it's that kind of mentality that permeates the whole scene.)
Fair enough, I see what you're saying.
That example sounds more like slackness on El Hornet's part rather than him choosing to ignore you though. He probably didn't even listen to it when you sent it over. The same could easily apply to any other big name you sent music to.
Anyway, if like believe in what you're doing, you're selling tracks and getting decent gigs it doesn't really matter if big names are playing your music. If you do the rounds enough and your music is shifting, they'll pay attention sooner or later - providing they actually play the sound you're producing.
I'm not trying to talk you out of giving up, if your hearts not in it, then it's not in it. But you do have a pretty sizable audience to reach. 3 million views is not messing around.
That example sounds more like slackness on El Hornet's part rather than him choosing to ignore you though. He probably didn't even listen to it when you sent it over. The same could easily apply to any other big name you sent music to.
Anyway, if like believe in what you're doing, you're selling tracks and getting decent gigs it doesn't really matter if big names are playing your music. If you do the rounds enough and your music is shifting, they'll pay attention sooner or later - providing they actually play the sound you're producing.
I'm not trying to talk you out of giving up, if your hearts not in it, then it's not in it. But you do have a pretty sizable audience to reach. 3 million views is not messing around.
Thing is, if a more established producer had sent him it, he would've listened to it there and then. EDIT: I should point out that he has actually asked for a track off me in the past, hence why i sent him new bits.
I did believe in what i was doing for the longest time and you're right, 3 million views isn't nothing. But when those same people just aren't getting to know about your releases because no-one will play your tunes in clubs, in mixes and other places, then ultimately i could have 10 million views on youtube, but release day would still come and go without a sound.
I know i probably sound bitter about it all but i'm really not, i'm just glad that i'm genuinely not bothered about being big in DnB any more because it was kind of consuming my life!! Now i just get to write whatever i want to write and see what happens......feels fucking great.
< Message edited by Sidius -- 11/7/2012 6:37:19 PM >
That example sounds more like slackness on El Hornet's part rather than him choosing to ignore you though. He probably didn't even listen to it when you sent it over. The same could easily apply to any other big name you sent music to.
Anyway, if like believe in what you're doing, you're selling tracks and getting decent gigs it doesn't really matter if big names are playing your music. If you do the rounds enough and your music is shifting, they'll pay attention sooner or later - providing they actually play the sound you're producing.
I'm not trying to talk you out of giving up, if your hearts not in it, then it's not in it. But you do have a pretty sizable audience to reach. 3 million views is not messing around.
Thing is, if a more established producer had sent him it, he would've listened to it there and then. EDIT: I should point out that he has actually asked for a track off me in the past, hence why i sent him new bits.
I did believe in what i was doing for the longest time and you're right, 3 million views isn't nothing. But when those same people just aren't getting to know about your releases because no-one will play your tunes in clubs, in mixes and other places, then ultimately i could have 10 million views on youtube, but release day would still come and go without a sound.
I know i probably sound bitter about it all but i'm really not, i'm just glad that i'm genuinely not bothered about being big in DnB any more because it was kind of consuming my life!! Now i just get to write whatever i want to write and see what happens......feels fucking great.
That is what music is all about really imo, Writing what you want to write, if certain success comes from it thats just a bi product. Though it's good to know that people are listening to you or appreciating what you do. The music industry is more about politics i reckon than writting good music.
As an art form its important for music to at least try to progress and evolve, so to advise people not to try an find their own sound would be ridiculous.
No ones forcing anyone to do anything but if people really want to try and make a contribution to the culture its paramount that they try to evolve an keep things fresh.
Having said that, if some people just want to emulate what they love thats fine as well, whatever gets you though the day, but getting upset about people suggesting people find their own sound is pretty strange.
I think ASC probably summed it up better than I can in a recent interview of his where he said the scene is full of too many producers and not enough artists. I suppose that's what I'm trying to say
< Message edited by JakeDaniel -- 11/7/2012 6:59:03 PM >
That example sounds more like slackness on El Hornet's part rather than him choosing to ignore you though. He probably didn't even listen to it when you sent it over. The same could easily apply to any other big name you sent music to.
Anyway, if like believe in what you're doing, you're selling tracks and getting decent gigs it doesn't really matter if big names are playing your music. If you do the rounds enough and your music is shifting, they'll pay attention sooner or later - providing they actually play the sound you're producing.
I'm not trying to talk you out of giving up, if your hearts not in it, then it's not in it. But you do have a pretty sizable audience to reach. 3 million views is not messing around.
Thing is, if a more established producer had sent him it, he would've listened to it there and then. EDIT: I should point out that he has actually asked for a track off me in the past, hence why i sent him new bits.
I did believe in what i was doing for the longest time and you're right, 3 million views isn't nothing. But when those same people just aren't getting to know about your releases because no-one will play your tunes in clubs, in mixes and other places, then ultimately i could have 10 million views on youtube, but release day would still come and go without a sound.
I know i probably sound bitter about it all but i'm really not, i'm just glad that i'm genuinely not bothered about being big in DnB any more because it was kind of consuming my life!! Now i just get to write whatever i want to write and see what happens......feels fucking great.
That is what music is all about really imo, Writing what you want to write, if certain success comes from it thats just a bi product. Though it's good to know that people are listening to you or appreciating what you do. The music industry is more about politics i reckon than writting good music.
Of course it is, it's more interested in making money, because industry is business and businesses don't work if they don't make money.
That example sounds more like slackness on El Hornet's part rather than him choosing to ignore you though. He probably didn't even listen to it when you sent it over. The same could easily apply to any other big name you sent music to.
Anyway, if like believe in what you're doing, you're selling tracks and getting decent gigs it doesn't really matter if big names are playing your music. If you do the rounds enough and your music is shifting, they'll pay attention sooner or later - providing they actually play the sound you're producing.
I'm not trying to talk you out of giving up, if your hearts not in it, then it's not in it. But you do have a pretty sizable audience to reach. 3 million views is not messing around.
Thing is, if a more established producer had sent him it, he would've listened to it there and then. EDIT: I should point out that he has actually asked for a track off me in the past, hence why i sent him new bits.
I did believe in what i was doing for the longest time and you're right, 3 million views isn't nothing. But when those same people just aren't getting to know about your releases because no-one will play your tunes in clubs, in mixes and other places, then ultimately i could have 10 million views on youtube, but release day would still come and go without a sound.
I know i probably sound bitter about it all but i'm really not, i'm just glad that i'm genuinely not bothered about being big in DnB any more because it was kind of consuming my life!! Now i just get to write whatever i want to write and see what happens......feels fucking great.
Fair play. I've got nothing but respect for sticking to what you love. So many people push a sound they don't even like to get somewhere and worse still, once they've made it carry on pushing that same sound they didn't even like in the first place. What's the fucking point? You might as well aim for a job in a wealthy industry if you only care about money.
But the former part of your post - to be blunt it sounds like marketing/promotion inadequacies to me. Those same listeners should be finding their way to your new releases. If they're not, then something is up. You can't expect big names to do all your promotion for you just by playing your track.
You realise that 3 million views is insanely high? Even Marka, which was one of the most hyped releases in years and exploded on youtube, has half as many views.
Yeah if you're getting lots of views you're getting lots of potential customers. You need to be marketing to them and selling direct in digital format, direct and via digital distributors nowadays.
Really pushing the promo on other forms of social media too and continually giving the tunes away to people that you know do like your sound tunes and will play them to an audience, if they're slack, nag them, as long as you know they actually like them it's not really spamming, they've asked for them. Build up a better rapport with them and get on the case and make it happen for yourself.
That example sounds more like slackness on El Hornet's part rather than him choosing to ignore you though. He probably didn't even listen to it when you sent it over. The same could easily apply to any other big name you sent music to.
Anyway, if like believe in what you're doing, you're selling tracks and getting decent gigs it doesn't really matter if big names are playing your music. If you do the rounds enough and your music is shifting, they'll pay attention sooner or later - providing they actually play the sound you're producing.
I'm not trying to talk you out of giving up, if your hearts not in it, then it's not in it. But you do have a pretty sizable audience to reach. 3 million views is not messing around.
Thing is, if a more established producer had sent him it, he would've listened to it there and then. EDIT: I should point out that he has actually asked for a track off me in the past, hence why i sent him new bits.
I did believe in what i was doing for the longest time and you're right, 3 million views isn't nothing. But when those same people just aren't getting to know about your releases because no-one will play your tunes in clubs, in mixes and other places, then ultimately i could have 10 million views on youtube, but release day would still come and go without a sound.
I know i probably sound bitter about it all but i'm really not, i'm just glad that i'm genuinely not bothered about being big in DnB any more because it was kind of consuming my life!! Now i just get to write whatever i want to write and see what happens......feels fucking great.
Fair play. I've got nothing but respect for sticking to what you love. So many people push a sound they don't even like to get somewhere and worse still, once they've made it carry on pushing that same sound they didn't even like in the first place. What's the fucking point? You might as well aim for a job in a wealthy industry if you only care about money.
But the former part of your post - to be blunt it sounds like marketing/promotion inadequacies to me. Those same listeners should be finding their way to your new releases. If they're not, then something is up. You can't expect big names to do all your promotion for you just by playing your track.
You realise that 3 million views is insanely high? Even Marka, which was one of the most hyped releases in years and exploded on youtube, has half as many views.
Basically, you should have hired Panda to do all of your label promotion.
I can't stand the bloke, but he's clearly a marketing ninja.
Fair play. I've got nothing but respect for sticking to what you love. So many people push a sound they don't even like to get somewhere and worse still, once they've made it carry on pushing that same sound they didn't even like in the first place. What's the fucking point? You might as well aim for a job in a wealthy industry if you only care about money.
I completely agree with this. However, the attitude change that is needed for the general consumer to actually go out and buy or even check out stuff that doesn't come from the outlets they are used to, is a much bigger and slower change than it is for a producer to convince themselves to slightly compromise their work. We producers are probably the most guilty with putting stuff on that label pedistal.
But the music should be available in all the usual outlets in digital format, vinyl is pretty much dead now as a format and digital sales are much more commonplace now as far as I know. There's no reason why you can't get your music available on juno, itunes, chemical, nu urban etc and then the marketing afterwards is up to you same as it always has been with anyone else. Sure you might not have the same reputation as some more established artists but it's the same in any other genre and it's something you have to work on yourself not just expect to happen on its own.
Fair play. I've got nothing but respect for sticking to what you love. So many people push a sound they don't even like to get somewhere and worse still, once they've made it carry on pushing that same sound they didn't even like in the first place. What's the fucking point? You might as well aim for a job in a wealthy industry if you only care about money.
But the former part of your post - to be blunt it sounds like marketing/promotion inadequacies to me. Those same listeners should be finding their way to your new releases. If they're not, then something is up. You can't expect big names to do all your promotion for you just by playing your track.
You realise that 3 million views is insanely high? Even Marka, which was one of the most hyped releases in years and exploded on youtube, has half as many views.
You forget that video went up on youtube at the end of 2009!!! That's a long time to get all those hits.....not belittling it, but see how many Marka has in another couple of years.
And yeah you're probably right about the PR, both myself and Wayz were always so busy with out day jobs that we barely had the time to write new tunes let alone properly market ourselves. Peet's a fucking marketing don, but he's building his own shit up himself, he never would have had time to do Steam as well.
Anyway, i'm not completely ruling out that at some point in the future i'm going to start writing DnB again and pick up where we've left off with Steam (no reason why we can't put out non DnB on there, most labels are multi genre these days) but first i'm just going to have a bit of a journey of discovery and see if i can get some other people to put my music out. Already got one tune signed so far so i'm loving having no responsibilities other than just writing new tunes!!
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